Though it feels like it undermines his complaint from this weekend (because the two big issues he has is that the laws were not properly administered), he's really not wrong at all with this portion of his comments:
Like you mentioned in his earlier post he could be relegated based on these results. I agree his portion on general officiating approach was spot on. However, I will say he didn’t make any mentions of assistants?!?!? Which would be my biggest bone to pick. I like how he didn’t mention VAR either. Lolz
To hear him talk, If Paul Durkin, Graham Poll and Mark Clattenburg all refereed his games, they'd be in the top four.
I think Warnock is just a bitter old man who has been complaining and blasting referees for decades now. I really think there is nothing to be gained from any of his comments. His comments offer nothing and reveal nothing. He wants referees to "not be robots" and "understand the game" when decisions don't go his team's way. Basically, whenever referees either fail to give a big decision for his team or give a big decision against his team then they don't understand the game and the human element. As far as the comments about Riley being a manufactured referee and a robot, does a robot make these decisions? Is the video below a textbook example of taking account the "human element? The game below was a textbook example of a referee going in with a game plan to "manage the game" early and Man United knew that and it just blew up spectacularly in his face. Any "robot referee" sends of Ashley Cole for the blatant disrespect he showed here. By the way when this incident happened below, the English media were up in arms about why Cole wasn't sent off for his dissent and disrespect towards Riley. Any "robot referee" produces a red card here. Was a Riley a great referee? I don't know. I didn't see much difference in the way he refereed compared to any other English referee such as Poll, Clattenburg or Webb. He probably just didn't have the personality and presence that those other guys had and that is why he wasn't as good and as respected. Every referee is manufactured. No one grows up of dreaming to be a referee. No on is born to be a referee and no one is just naturally a world class referee from the start. We grow and we learn on the job just like any profession. It's obvious that there is a lot of animosity and resentment from many in England towards Riley. Many former referees and, now managers, don't like him. Guys like Poll, Halsley, Keith Hackett all seem to not be fans of him. I guess it is the way he carries himself and how he is in person that rubs people the wrong way. I think there is also the way he came about to be the PGMOL General Manager that probably really stings at Hackett. Those are probably fair and valid criticisms. But strictly judging from the way he has done his job as manager and the way his referees have performed you have to say he has done a good job. Through his tenure, English referees have done a World Cup Final, two Champions League Finals, a European Championship Final, a Euro semi-final and countless Champions League semi-finals and quarter final appointments. How many big games in the international arena did Poll and other English referees get prior to Riley being in charge of PGMOL referees? H'es obviously doing something right to be able to keep this job for 10 years now in the most high profile league in the world. MLS hasn't had the same manager of referees for more than like 5 years....
Quoting Warnock: BBC article said: "I always thought Mike Riley was a manufactured referee from day one when he refereed a game at Hartlepool against me. I don't think he's changed since then.
I know Warnock is upset about the big missed offside call. I get that. However, hu just comes across as a grumpy old man here. (I realize that's probably how he is given his general demeanor). I also noticed how he seems to have a beef with Riley from the past and that he didn't mention VAR. Obviously, that's ironic because VAR would have easily caught that error and preserved Cardiff's lead. I figured that posting the article would spark some debate!
@RedStar91, you and I have a slightly (or possibly majorly) different definition of how "robot referees" operate. To me, a robot referee isn't necessarily one who appropriately (or even over-zealously) punishes all misconduct he sees. Let's say, like a Marco Rodriguez. A robot referee, to me, is essentially: whistle, decision, next; whistle, decision, next. Riley may have been trying to manage that game in the first clip you provide, but he seems incapable of doing so. There doesn't seem to be any critical thinking as he makes decisions and as incidents unfold. He sees an incident--sometimes correctly, though oftentimes in the clips you provide incorrectly--makes his decision and that's it. To take a specific example you used, with the Cole disrespect/dissent, it seems like Riley saw a tackle, determined it was yellow, and that was that. There was seemingly no seeking input from the AR (to get the SFP card it should have been), there was no real effort to talk Cole down (either in a firm or empathetic way--take your pick) and there was no threat to escalate punishment once Cole clearly started to cross the line. He just made his decision and waited until he could move on. That's robotic refereeing to me. With all that said, we've undoubtedly given Warnock's comments more consideration than they deserve. I suppose my only real point from highlighting that section of his comments is that I agreed with him to the extent I never thought Riley was that good of a top-flight referee. Your video selection reinforces my memories!
Liverpool's first goal today had an interesting "what if VAR was around" talking point. Salah was offside in the buildup and eventually Liverpool scored after Southampton failed to clear. IMO it's a pretty clear case of offside in the APP and VAR would rule out this goal. Southamptons clearance went straight to a Liverpool player and the protocols clearly say this doesn't reset the APP. The reason I'm posting about this though is that Sky Sports "confirmed" that VAR wouldn't intervene in this case and said so during the match. I don't know who their source was for this information, but once again it just goes to show how incredibly wrong the English media continues to be about VAR.
While I am absolutely not sure at this time whether Salah was in an offside position or not, I am very sure that the screengrab that's been floating around from Sky Sports is 100% not on the correct frame to judge offside position. The ball is already coming off of the foot, and we need to rewind a frame or two to find the first moment of contact. I don't know how much that will change the overall picture, but perhaps it's enough. After all, the folks doing VAR in England hopefully know more about Law 11 than the Sky production crew.
From what I've read, the source Sky referenced said it was too long before the goal to have VAR intervene. This is the part I have an issue with. If Salah was offside, then they scored during that APP.
Ahhhh, that I assume would be down to interpretation, but unless there was a clear change of possession I don't know about, that's seems rather ridiculous.
The Southampton defender cleared a cross with their head straight to a Liverpool attacker. And since the protocol specifically says this doesn't end the APP...
Agreed. A clearance that goes straight back to the attacking team isn't enough. Hopefully they don't stick to that. A better image of the decision would be nice, too.
NBC Sports doesn't have full video up yet. Anyone have it? This is more complicated than just whether or not a clearance reset the APP. Page 21 and 22 in the Handbook cover things: https://www.knvb.nl/downloads/bestand/9844/var-handbook-v8_final
I think PRO would say that is all part of the same APP. You’ve got a number of factors to consider, though. There’s the attempted clearance. There’s the fact that the ball is deliberately played outside the penalty area to reset the attack. And there is the fact that the second cross does not connect and goes to no man’s land, with no one in actual possession for a couple seconds. Individually, none of those compoments would be enough to reset the APP. Collectively and combined with the time elapsed, one could make an argument for a reset under the “what football expects” rubric embedded in the APP section. I still think it’s an incorrect argument. But this is a brave new world and we are building the plane as we fly.
I’ll throw the fly into the ointment here. Is it a clear and obvious error that Salah was offside on the first Liverpool goal? This is where I start to have questions about the threshold for offside. This is a close offside call. I personally think Salah was offside, but it was really close. Can we get to a point where we can truly see, given these camera angles and the “line” technology, that this is a clear and obvious error? I guess what I’m saying is that even if Salah is barely offside here, I’d be fine with going with the call on the field. This isn’t at all like the Chelsea-Cardiff offside. This is close, and benefit of the doubt went to the attacker.
Friday, 5 April 20:00 Southampton v Liverpool Referee: Paul Tierney Assistants: Stuart Burt, Darren Cann Fourth official: Graham Scott Saturday, 6 April AFC Bournemouth v Burnley Referee: Martin Atkinson Assistants: Stephen Child, Harry Lennard Fourth official: Simon Hooper Huddersfield Town v Leicester Referee: David Coote Assistants: Marc Perry, Peter Kirkup Fourth official: Jonathan Moss Newcastle v Crystal Palace Referee: Stuart Attwell Assistants: Simon Long, Richard West Fourth official: Craig Pawson Sunday, 7 April 14:05 Everton v Arsenal Referee: Kevin Friend Assistants: Matthew Wilkes, Adrian Holmes Fourth official: Mike Dean Monday, 8 April 20:00 Chelsea v West Ham Referee: Chris Kavanagh Assistants: Daniel Cook, Constantine Hatzidakis Fourth official: Jonathan Moss Friend for a match at Goodison Park that always entertains
FA Cup Semi-Finals 1 Manchester City v Brighton & Hove Albion 5.30pm, Saturday 6 April 2019 Referee: Anthony Taylor Assistant Referees: Gary Beswick & Adam Nunn Fourth Official: Roger East Reserve Assistant: Neil Davies VAR: Paul Tierney AVAR: Andrew Halliday 2 Watford v Wolverhampton Wanderers 4pm, Sunday 7 April Referee: Michael Oliver Assistant Referees: Simon Bennett & Lee Betts Fourth Official: Andre Marriner Reserve Assistant: Daniel Robathan VAR: Graham Scott AVAR: Stephen Child Pawson, Friend, or Tierney for the Final?
The April 20th City-Spurs match is going to be massive for title implications and will also be the third time those two teams play each other in about 11 days. Could be one of the more intense EPL matches in years. Oliver seems like the no-brainer. I can only see Dean as the backup option.
True. He’s been a tad bit shakier this year though, no? Of the three, which has seen those teams the least? And not recently? Got to presume there is some advanced planning for this assignment.
Atkinson had last week's Liverpool-Spurs, but there's a three-week gap so it could still be feasible. Dean should be out after his incident with Pochettino. Oliver hasn't seen either team for a while. The reverse fixture was handled by Friend. Another equally big, if not bigger match is the Manchester derby just five days later. Taylor had the reverse fixture. I'd predict Atkinson for Man City-Spurs and Oliver for the Manchester derby. If not this, then the other way round.
Forgot about Dean and Pochetinno. You’re right on that point. When’s the last time Atkinson had the Manchester derby? I lean Oliver on the Spurs match and Atkinson on the Manchester game, but that’s just gut. Does seem like it should be the two of them.