Disagree that the initial contact is trifiling, this is a foul IMHO. Since there was no advantage signal I'm assuming the R decided otherwise. If he had deemed this to be a foul, I don't think this would be a good time to apply advantage - a PK would be a better opportunity. Can we go back and give a PK after the first shot (that hits the post)? Latest instruction I remember from a talk given by our SRA was no, no more two bites at the apple. Either play advantage or call the PK.
I agree it should have been called and agree that he didn't apply advantage--the no-signal-in-the-PA concept was based on the idea that the advantage signal would be the signal for the kick off. And I'd love to have some clarity I can point to on whether the "only a goal" concept is supposed to remain. (My greatest frustration with the demise of the ATR and the withdrawal of memos is it leaves a wide open gap as to figuring out what should be considered good guidance and what not. Just because something in the ATR or a memo is no longer a binding interpretation because it was in the ART or memo doesn't mean that it is wrong because it was in there.) If the only a goal in the PA standard applies (and I'm inclined to think that it does not), I believe the PK should have been awarded the moment the ball struck the post. If the only a goal standard does not apply, I think the foul should have been called before the attacker got up--it doesn't seem to me that there was a good opportunity for a scoring opportunity better than a PK when the foul occurred. If, however, the R believed that his quick recovery had the opportunity to give him a better opportunity than a PK, he should only go back if he concludes that he was wrong and the opportunity that arose was not better than a PK. That decision can't be based on the fact that shot was missed, but only on the opportunity presented to the player. But concluding the opportunity was not better only after the shot hits the bar makes the ref look bad. At the time of the foul, nothing suggests to me that there is a better than a PK opportunity. Thus, IMHO, the foul should have been called immediately.
Agreed. Have seen quite a few people (both media and the managers among them) referencing advantage, don't think that was what happened at all. I've never heard anything that would indicate that that is guidance in England but then again I'm fairly sure I've never seen an advantage signal for an incident in the PA. Agree with this too. As an Arsenal fan I think we got away with one (and someone needs to have a talk with Mustafi, he's way to prone to go sliding in in/around the PA).
In one of last year's Man City/Liverpool games (I think I have the teams right, and the video was on this forum), Michael Oliver awarded a goal by pointing up the field to the center circle with a two-armed advantage signal. He saw a clear defensive foul in the penalty area, but the guy right behind the foul scored the goal. Oliver gave the advantage signal and then turned up the field with both arms still extended instead of just pointing to the center circle with a single arm. I thought it was a brilliant signaling mechanic. He was still able to show that he acknowledged the foul while pointing up the field to award the goal.
Saturday 30 September 12.30pm Huddersfield Town v Spurs (Sky Sports) Referee: Neil Swarbrick Assistants: Richard West, Adrian Holmes Fourth official: Lee Mason AFC Bournemouth v Leicester City Referee: Graham Scott Assistants: Andy Garrett, Daniel Cook Fourth official: Keith Stroud Manchester United v Crystal Palace Referee: Mike Dean Assistants: Simon Long, Matthew Wilkes Fourth official: Stuart Attwell Stoke City v Southampton Referee: Mike Jones Assistants: Simon Beck, Derek Eaton Fourth official: Bobby Madley West Bromwich Albion v Watford Referee: Michael Oliver Assistants: Simon Bennett, Mick McDonough Fourth official: Geoff Eltringham West Ham United v Swansea City Referee: Roger East Assistants: Mark Scholes, Sian Massey-Ellis Fourth official: Kevin Friend 5.30pm Chelsea v Man City (BT Sport) Referee: Martin Atkinson Assistants: Lee Betts, Stephen Child Fourth official: Andre Marriner Sunday 1 October 12pm Arsenal v Brighton (BT Sport) Referee: Kevin Friend Assistants: Stuart Burt, Ian Hussin Fourth official: Roger East 2.15pm Everton v Burnley (Sky Sports) Referee: Jonathan Moss Assistants: Eddie Smart, Andy Halliday Fourth official: Chris Kavanagh 4.30pm Newcastle v Liverpool (Sky Sports) Referee: Craig Pawson Assistants: Scott Ledger, Constantine Hatzidakis Fourth official: Bobby Madley
Matchday 8 Saturday 14 October 12.30pm Liverpool v Man Utd (Sky Sports) Referee: Martin Atkinson Assistants: Lee Betts, Stephen Child Fourth official: Jonathan Moss Burnley v West Ham Referee: Stuart Attwell Assistants: Eddie Smart, Mick McDonough Fourth official: Mike Dean Crystal Palace v Chelsea Referee: Andre Marriner Assistants: Simon Beck, Sian Massey-Ellis Fourth official: Roger East Man City v Stoke City Referee: Craig Pawson Assistants: Ian Hussin, Andy Garratt Fourth official: Andy Madley Swansea City v Huddersfield Town Referee: Paul Tierney Assistants: Daniel Cook, Mark Scholes Fourth official: Mike Jones Tottenham Hotspur v AFC Bournemouth Referee: Bobby Madley Assistants: Peter Kirkup, Marc Perry Fourth official: Chris Kavanagh 5.30pm Watford v Arsenal (BT Sport) Referee: Neil Swarbrick Assistants: Scott Ledger, Adrian Holmes Fourth official: Graham Scott Sunday 15 October 1.30pm Brighton v Everton Referee: Michael Oliver Assistants: Simon Bennett, Stuart Burt Fourth official: Chris Kavanagh 4pm Southampton v Newcastle (Sky Sports) Referee: Kevin Friend Assistants: Constantine Hatzidakis, Matthew Wilkes Fourth official: Roger East Monday 16 October 8pm Leicester v West Brom (Sky Sports) Referee: Mike Dean Assistants: Simon Long, Harry Lennard Fourth official: Paul Tierney
Quite a lot of noise about the PK called for Watford v Arsenal tonight, we might just see the Diving tribunal getting some action. IMO it looked like the attacker went down fairly easy but I don't think it should be classed as a dive worthy of suspension since there was contact that was initiated by the defender. Video of it here (not sure how long the link will survive), incident starts at 1.34 in.
Yedlin should count himself as incredibly lucky. Already on a caution, he committed this rather rash challenge. Friend chose to give him a rather stern lecture, and kept the game at 11v11. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x64oet3
It is quite clear that in reality in many top competitions 2nd YCs are not given for the next bad transgression, but for the one after that. The actual 2nd one just gets the "stern lecture" AKA the "ass-chew." This is known as good management in order to try to keep the match at 11 v. 11 for the benefit of the fans and TV audience and is something referees receive plaudits for. IMO what is needed is another color card for the 2nd infraction and then the final red one can be produced. Then we all wouldn't wonder why the LOTG are not being properly enforced. PH
I doubt that solves anything. Say an orange card is introduced. Player is cautioned and shown the yellow. Player then cautioned again and shown the orange. Player commits a third cautionable offense. Is the ref more likely to go to the red or for the stern lecture? In my opinion, what fixes this is if a player is red carded, that player is ejected from the match. His team plays down for a period of time (10 minutes?) and then the player can be replaced.
The idea would be to go for the red card, which is what they do now. This would just make it within the LOTG instead of ignoring the obvious. This is even more ridiculous than the present situation. It could encourage the "goon" type of player who takes out a top opponent and gets replaced by someone else anyway. Sounds like a recipe for disaster and mayhem. PH
So they've looked at it but decided that it wasn't worthy of a ban. Good to see the system being used at least. http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41639158
The FA did find a incident they think is worthy of a ban, League 2 though. http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41680847
Matchday 9 Friday 20 October 8pm West Ham v Brighton (Sky Sports) Referee: Martin Atkinson Assistants: Peter Kirkup, Stephen Child Fourth official: Neil Swarbrick Saturday 21 October 12:30pm Chelsea v Watford (Sky Sports) Referee: Jonathan Moss Assistants: Simon Bennett, Andy Halliday Fourth official: Andre Marriner Huddersfield v Man Utd Referee: Lee Mason Assistants: Harry Lennard, Matthew Wilkes Fourth official: Kevin Friend Man City v Burnley Referee: Roger East Assistants: Constantine Hatzidakis, Sian Massey-Ellis Fourth official: Bobby Madley Newcastle v Crystal Palace Referee: Stuart Attwell Assistants: Simon Long, Andy Garratt Fourth official: Mike Dean Stoke City v AFC Bournemouth Referee: Lee Probert Assistants: Adrian Holmes, Derek Eaton Fourth official: Jeremy Simpson Swansea City v Leicester City Referee: Michael Oliver Assistants: Stuart Burt, Mick McDonough Fourth official: Andy Davies 5:30pm Southampton v West Brom (BT Sport) Referee: Graham Scott Assistants: Richard West, Mark Scholes Fourth official: Neil Swarbrick Sunday 22 October 1:30pm Everton v Arsenal (Sky Sports) Referee: Craig Pawson Assistants: Lee Betts, Eddie Smart Fourth official: Bobby Madley 4pm Tottenham Hotspur v Liverpool (Sky Sports) Referee: Andre Marriner Assistants: Simon Beck, Scott Ledger Fourth official: Mike Jones Marriner with the match of the week, Pawson with a tie that always turns out to be interesting. Atkinson with a mid-table clash after back-to-back high-profile matches.
Jon Moss on an interesting match. Watford and Chelsea are 4 & 5 right now on the table. With Chelsea coming off a high-profile UCL match and Watford riding their high off of their Arsenal win. This could be a testing match for Moss.
Kick-offs 3pm BST unless stated. Saturday 27 October 12:30pm Man Utd v Spurs (Sky Sports) Referee: Jonathan Moss Assistants: Simon Bennett, Andy Halliday Fourth official: Stuart Attwell Arsenal v Swansea Referee: Lee Mason Assistants: Harry Lennard, Derek Eaton Fourth official: Lee Probert Crystal Palace v West Ham Referee: Bobby Madley Assistants: Marc Perry, Adrian Holmes Fourth official: James Linington Liverpool v Huddersfield Referee: Kevin Friend Assistants: Richard West, Mark Scholes Fourth official: Mike Dean Watford v Stoke City Referee: Michael Oliver Assistants: Stuart Burt, Andy Garratt Fourth official: Chris Kavanagh West Brom v Man City Referee: Mike Jones Assistants: Matthew Wilkes, Mick McDonough Fourth official: Tim Robinson 5:30pm AFC Bournemouth v Chelsea (BT Sport) Referee: Craig Pawson Assistants: Lee Betts, Eddie Smart Fourth official: Roger East Sunday 29 October 1:30pm Brighton v Southampton (Sky Sports) Referee: Neil Swarbrick Assistants: Constantine Hatzidakis, Scott Ledger Fourth official: Roger East 4pm Leicester v Everton (Sky Sports) Referee: Andre Marriner Assistants: Simon Beck, Sian Massey-Ellis Fourth official: Mike Jones Monday 30 October 8pm Burnley v Newcastle (Sky Sports) Referee: Mike Dean Assistants: Simon Long, Ian Hussin Fourth official: Lee Mason Jon Moss with the marquee match up (might wake up and watch it). He must have been given good marks for the Chelsea v. Watford match. Interesting that Andy Halliday is working with him again after the snafu that lead to Pedro's goal. Liverpool vs Huddersfield will also be a good match for Kevin Friend.
Saturday 4 November 12:30pm Stoke v Leicester (Sky Sports) Referee: Bobby Madley Assistants: Lee Betts, Marc Perry Fourth official: Jonathan Moss Huddersfield v West Brom Referee: Roger East Assistants: Constantine Hatzidakis, Sian Massey-Ellis Fourth official: Lee Mason Newcastle v AFC Bournemouth Referee: Paul Tierney Assistants: Scott Ledger, Harry Lennard Fourth official: Martin Atkinson Southampton v Burnley Referee: Lee Probert Assistants: Simon Beck, Andy Garratt Fourth official: Kevin Friend Swansea v Brighton Referee: Mike Dean Assistants: Ian Hussin, Derek Eaton Fourth official: Simon Hooper 5:30pm West Ham v Liverpool (BT Sport) Referee: Neil Swarbrick Assistants: Stephen Child, Eddie Smart Fourth official: Craig Pawson Sunday 5 November 12pm Spurs v Crystal Palace (BT Sport) Referee: Kevin Friend Assistants: Simon Long, Adrian Holmes Fourth official: Mike Jones 2.15pm Man City v Arsenal (Sky Sports) Referee: Michael Oliver Assistants: Simon Bennett, Stuart Burt Fourth official: Andre Marriner 4.30pm Chelsea v Man Utd (Sky Sports) Referee: Anthony Taylor Assistants: Gary Beswick, Adam Nunn Fourth official: Craig Pawson 4.30pm Everton v Watford Referee: Graham Scott Assistants: Richard West, Mick McDonough Fourth official: Bobby Madley Oliver and Taylor with the big ones this week.
Do we know how? I had game on but was fixing breakfast, saw the very end of the process of their change. Audio not on.
Did anyone catch the Watford v. Everton match? I heard it was a crazy match with 12 mins of stoppage...
Saturday 18 November 12:30pm Arsenal v Tottenham Hotspur (Sky Sports) Referee: Mike Dean Assistants: Ian Hussin, Eddie Smart Fourth official: Kevin Friend AFC Bournemouth v Huddersfield Referee: Lee Probert Assistants: Andy Garratt, Derek Eaton Fourth official: Steve Martin Burnley v Swansea City Referee: Martin Atkinson Assistants: Stephen Child, Peter Kirkup Fourth official: Lee Mason Crystal Palace v Everton Referee: Anthony Taylor Assistants: Gary Beswick, Adam Nunn Fourth official: Andre Marriner Leicester City v Man City Referee: Graham Scott Assistants: Richard West, Scott Ledger Fourth official: Neil Swarbrick Liverpool v Southampton Referee: Mike Jones Assistants: Harry Lennard, Mark Scholes Fourth official: Michael Oliver West Brom v Chelsea Referee: Jonathan Moss Assistants: Simon Bennett, Andy Halliday Fourth official: Geoff Eltringham 5:30pm Man Utd v Newcastle (BT Sport) Referee: Craig Pawson Assistants: Lee Betts, Constantine Hatzidakis Fourth official: Paul Tierney Sunday 19 November 4pm Watford v West Ham (Sky Sports) Referee: Andre Marriner Assistants: Simon Beck, Simon Long Fourth official: Stuart Attwell Monday 20 November 8pm Brighton v Stoke City (Sky Sports) Referee: Lee Mason Assistants: Adrian Holmes, Matthew Wilkes Fourth official: Kevin Friend The 49-year-old Dean back in the limelight - when was the last time he did a big match? Arsenal fans are furious: https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/4905...-referee-for-north-london-derby-is-announced/ Some flashbacks for the occasion:
Mustafi's goal in the Arsenal-Tottenahm derby is a very good case study in why VAR in its current form is going to be VERY difficult to really make work in the way FIFA would like it to work. (Full disclosure - I'm a Spurs fan) Is Mustafi offside? By the slightest of margins, it seems like it. A portion of his head and shoulder appear to be in an offside position at the time the free kick is played. Do I understand why the AR didn't call offside? Absolutely. I sure don't think I would have called it. With so many players on the penalty area line and the extreme closeness of the decision, I can't see any way I would have been 100% sure to raise the flag. It's definitely close enough where I can defend an AR who says, "I will not call offside unless I'm 100% sure it's offside". Would this have been a "clear and obvious error"? I sure don't think so. This was close enough on replay. Watching with the naked eye at full speed would have been next to impossible. So you now get into the interpretation of "clear and obvious error" vs "I sure would like replay to help me make the 100% correct decision". If you are using the 2nd interpretation, you possibly overturn the goal because you rule Mustafi offside. If you use "clear and obvious error", there's really no way to overturn that decision. If you really stretch the credibility of using VAR in the attacking phase of play, you could use the same argument in the foul on Sanchez. I personally thought it was a foul (even if there wasn't a lot of contact, the arm hook was enough to impede progress in my opinion), but if you are using "clear and obvious error" that play would never be overturned. If you are using the "replay could help me make the right call", then a referee might overturn that call on review. In any case, using VAR to overturn either of these (again, I'm intentionally stretching the scope of VAR use to prove my point) shows why in my opinion the current use of VAR is not going to end well in my opinion.