Premier League 17-18 (R) assignments and discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by frankieboylampard, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. djmtxref

    djmtxref Member

    Apr 8, 2013
    Full disclosure- I’m a Tottenham fan. I thought those were both SFP. I think that anywhere but the EPL they would be. It’s astounding they weren’t even fouls. It’s lucky Hazard didn’t have that foot planted. I think Mathguy gave up counting the number of those Tottenham has gotten away with.
     
  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Players or teams?

    Players, I don't remember--watched a lot of soccer this weekend! But the first tackle was done by a Swansea player on a United player. The second one was the other way around.
     
  3. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Vertongen one looks worse at full speed. I think the Lamela one looks worse in slow motion. Both are SFP with VAR. I'll keep this post handy for the next time an Arsenal fan accuses me of being biased when I post about a decision that goes against Spurs. :)
     
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  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No way. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves.

    First, I personally am not convinced either is SFP in a classroom setting. Both have elements, but they aren’t 100%. Defensible if given as red, but not 100%.

    More important there’s no way VAR is going to lead to these being red. This does not rise to the level of being “clearly wrong.” In fact, in practice I think we’ve seen a lot of SFP tackles that were much, much clearer and still didn’t result in red via VR.
     
  5. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Lamela one I can understand being a yellow. I can even see it being the preferred outcome in a classroom.

    The Vertongen one maybe shows I've swung too far towards SFP. Here's the tackle at full speed. I'm surprised that a tackle where the defenders studs comes across the attacker and makes quite a bit of contact to the mid-calf of the attacker isn't SFP in the classroom.

    Here's the best I could find for full speed.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Depends if it’s an English classroom or not!

    I think there’s a chance USSF and/or PRO might say this is a red. PRO would defend a referee who gave red. But the one leg, the fact that the tackler is mostly on the ground, and the lower contact puts this in a bit more of a grey zone. This is less of an out of control lunge and more of a stretching tackle, so to speak. Unless there’s serious damage or the contact is high and/or out of control, I can defend yellow on this.

    Either way, I stand by the argument that VAR would—and should—never send this down as a clear and obvious error.
     
  7. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I suppose VAR is too busy getting involved with encroachment on PKs and finding minor fouls by the attackers to rule out goals to get involved with these types of plays. :)
     
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  8. Geko

    Geko Member

    Sacremento Geckos
    United States
    May 25, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed. Yellow is probably the best option here in my opinion, but red would have some merit to it. The fact that it's "orange" in any regard means I hope VAR wouldn't change whatever decision was made.
     
  9. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Matchday 33

    Saturday 7 April
    12:30 Everton v Liverpool

    Referee: Michael Oliver
    Assistants: Simon Bennett, Daniel Cook
    Fourth official: Chris Kavanagh

    AFC Bournemouth v Crystal Palace
    Referee:
    Jonathan Moss
    Assistants: Eddie Smart, Andy Halliday
    Fourth official: Kevin Friend

    Brighton & Hove Albion v Huddersfield Town
    Referee: Anthony Taylor
    Assistants: Adam Nunn, Peter Kirkup
    Fourth official: Lee Probert

    Leicester City v Newcastle United
    Referee: Stuart Attwell
    Assistants: Stuart Burt, Adrian Holmes
    Fourth official: Lee Mason

    Stoke City v Tottenham Hotspur
    Referee: Graham Scott
    Assistants: Gary Beswick, Constantine Hatzidakis
    Fourth official: Andre Marriner

    Watford v Burnley
    Referee: Paul Tierney
    Assistants: Richard West, Nick Hopton
    Fourth official: Tim Robinson

    West Bromwich Albion v Swansea City
    Referee: Roger East
    Assistants: Simon Beck, Derek Eaton
    Fourth official: David Coote

    17:30 Manchester City v Manchester United
    Referee: Martin Atkinson
    Assistants: Lee Betts, Stephen Child
    Fourth official: Craig Pawson

    Sunday 8 April
    14:15 Arsenal v Southampton

    Referee: Andre Marriner
    Assistants: Scott Ledger, Simon Long
    Fourth official: Mike Dean

    16:30 Chelsea v West Ham United
    Referee: Kevin Friend
    Assistants: Harry Lennard, Matthew Wilkes
    Fourth official: Neil Swarbrick

    Atkinson for the big one that could see Man City claim the title against their arch rivals. Oliver for the Merseyside derby. Worth noting that Oliver hasn't had Man United since the last Manchester derby in December.
     
  10. Ickshter

    Ickshter Member+

    Manchester City
    Mar 14, 2014
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Meh, Pep is more concerned about CL games this week against Liverpool. Depending on how the match at Anfield goes on Wednesday, they might not have their true starting 11 v United on Saturday. Still the biggest match of the week.
     
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  11. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Idk there are 3 derbys this weekend. Merseyside, Manchester and London. Unless I'm forgetting someone. I think the merseyside is the bigger match than Manchester simply for the reason stated. Curious to see if Klopp sits players as well.
     
  12. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Knowing the players is more important if a player scores or has another big impact after he should have been ejected. Knowing the clubs is okay? If there was one red card each I think United still would have won. Even if United was down 2 men, I don't know if Swansea could have scored 2, but I don't know what minute the fouls were.
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gotcha.

    I mean, it's England so I don't think SFP was truly in the cards for either foul here. But both seemed easy, easy yellows. The noteworthy thing for me was that the results were only a talking-to and a no-foul call. I wouldn't look at this too much through the prism of the officiating affecting the result.
     
  14. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sounds like we could make a book of orange challenges being ruled no foul or a talking to this weekend in the Premier League.
     
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  15. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Never change Mike Dean. Never change.

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004

    I do think he gets some help on this one from the AR.
     
  17. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course. His AR gave him the location. I was referring to the completely Mike Dean over the top point to the spot.
     
  18. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    Yes!!
     
  19. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    Are you implying that he is the Ron Luciano of football? :unsure:
     
  20. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    Michael Oliver with a disgraceful performance :unsure::whistling::whistling::whistling: in the Merseyside Derby this morning. Not even ONE card given out!!

    It wasn’t much of a match.
     
  21. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A big early decision for Atkinson. Handling? If so then it's DOGSO. I think back to Esse's video and it's hard to not lean towards handling. He slipped but I think if Atkinson can give a PK and yellow, he probably does it.
     
  22. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This last 10 minutes is going to be something.
     
  23. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    around the 75th-76th minute in the Manchester Derby. Young makes a monster tackle on Sergio Aguero. He manages to make contact with the ball but his foot rises above the ball and catches Aguero in the high leg/shin area. in my opinion 100% Pk and red card.

    Atkinson waves off the appeals. No Pk. Next tackle he has at midfield and mass confrontation!

    btw City is down 2-3.
     
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  24. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He won the ball, but it's really difficult to look at that and say that it's not a tackle that endangered the safety of the opponent. Everything was there for SFP even though "he won the ball".
     
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  25. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    100% agree he made contact with the ball. However, he left the ground, lunges, straight leg, point of contact high above the ball and below the knee. The mode of contact was the the bottom of his cleats. That is text book excessive force. Just cause he got ball first doesn't nullify the SFP. Which I am sure you are aware of :thumbsup:
     
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