Positional specialization a must?

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by CornfieldSoccer, Dec 9, 2019.

  1. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    Think of player development as a pyramid. You want to start with a wide base (think lots of experience at a lot of positions) that you slowly want to specialize over time. Keepers are somewhat of an exception due to the specialized nature of the position, but even they benefit from playing other positions. Do you really want to only know how to play left back, when the coach just recruited the best left back in the country?
     
  2. Unnaturallybigger

    United States
    Jun 28, 2019
    IMHO specialization for field players is a terrible idea at just about any age. As a country though we seem to be hyper focused on positions. How many times have you heard a parent tell a coach my kid doesn't play defense (usually with the justification that their kid once scored 7 goals in a game when he was five).

    I think the focus on positions really limits the development of soccer IQ, which I think is our greatest weakness in developing players. Soccer is ultimately a decision making sport. The best way to increase your soccer IQ is to play multiple positions which allows you to see the game from various perspectives.

    Another problem with specializing in one position is that different coaches may play positions differently. One may want their 3 to stay home while another may want the 3 to attack and provide crosses. Furthermore, a team could have different needs depending on the roster. Why would you limit your kid to one position?

    One thing I think we forget is that your striker is your first defender and your CB is your first attacker (actually your GK is first attacker). You need to be able to defend or attack regardless of position. Even your keeper should spend considerable time in the field, at least at practice. I would much rather have a keeper that can play with their feet and distribute, than a keep that is good at diving. There are way more opportunities to play with your feet in a game than diving, which has a low success rate anyway. Diving should be the last tool in a keepers arsenal and is used more than needed because the keeper has poor positioning or it looks cool. Unfortunately, diving is what keepers work on most.
     
  3. Terrier1966

    Terrier1966 Member

    Nov 19, 2016
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    I agree with your perspective...but...it gets complicated when coaches look for players who are specialized.

    I don’t know if full-year players are better but the perception is that they are and coaches react accordingly.

    Somebody tells you your kid will never make the team unless they play travel all year...it can become a snake eating its own tail.

    The challenge for families is what is “right” versus what “works” in an imperfect system largely controlled by short-sighted people.
     
    CornfieldSoccer repped this.
  4. Unnaturallybigger

    United States
    Jun 28, 2019
    I'd question the ability of a coach with that approach. That's a very old school mentality.
     
  5. Terrier1966

    Terrier1966 Member

    Nov 19, 2016
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    I’ll clarify...take a good, travel U16 team with a fairly settled lineup...now, transfer somebody’s mom to Oregon...what player is the coach looking for? A jack of all trades who wants to play multiple positions or a kid who can hold down the open position? What do the rest of the players want, what do the parents want?

    I’m not saying specialization is correct but there is how it is and how it should be.

    More than once we were in a situation in which one of ours could play the position available, sit on the bench or be on another team.

    It certainly isn’t right at too early an age but it seems inevitable that it does happen.
     
  6. Unnaturallybigger

    United States
    Jun 28, 2019
    Personally I would want the best player available regardless of position, but that's just me. As far as coaches go, if a coach plays a total football style they will want the jack of all trades. If a coach plays more of a direct style with specific responsibilities that don't overlap much (ie defenders don't attack and strikers don't drop deep) than yes they're probably going to want a position specialist. Short term goals...take the specialist. Long term goals...take the player with the IQ to play multiple positions.

    Good coaches are open-minded and fluid with their positions. Gareth Bale was a right back at Tottenham until he scored a hat trick. While his example may be extreme, its not uncommon for players to change positions at the professional level.

    BTW, 1966 is an excellent year.
     
  7. Terrier1966

    Terrier1966 Member

    Nov 19, 2016
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    I agree with everything you say and from a macro perspective it is the way it should be done.

    Youth soccer coaches range from eminently qualified to “well, I took the classes”.

    We’ve seen many types in our family’s journey (3 players) from 3-4 yo to college...we moved twice, changed clubs for a variety of reasons (never out of anger, spite or dissatisfaction) and played on everything from winless teams to Nationals to DA to D3 and D1. Both genders.

    I try my best to suggest the best approach but also offer the realism that others will potentially experience.

    One thing that is true: no two experiences are the same so all of the input on here needs to be distilled and used carefully.

    Parents should be optimistic, trusting and balanced...but not naive.

    Not unlike financial advice, so much depends on the perspective of the recipient...good advice for one could be detrimental to the next.
     
    bigredfutbol and mwulf67 repped this.
  8. CornfieldSoccer

    Aug 22, 2013
    Amen. That's at the heart of my question in the first post. At this point, my son badly wants to keep playing into college, and he and we are making some of our decisions with that in mind (believe me, I have really mixed feelings about this).
     
    Unnaturallybigger repped this.
  9. Unnaturallybigger

    United States
    Jun 28, 2019
    Agree.
    Any advice should be taken with a grain of salt, particularly mine. IMHO being a multi-positional player gives you the best odds overall but may not fit a particular micro situation. Is it worth it to specialize to chase that micro situation? That's up to the individual to decide. We are all shaped by our own experiences.

    My son was "cut" from his DA team last year because the coach claimed he could only play one position, the 3 (in my mind that was just an excuse, the coach had a specific style of player, flashy dribblers, he didn't put much weight in passing or movement off the ball). On his current DA team the coach likes him at the 11, the DOC at the 3 and the older's coach whose team he trains with likes him at the 8....and of course I have my own opinion. The club puts a lot of value on soccer IQ. He typically ends up playing whatever position is the greatest need at the time depending on injuries and opponent. Not only has this given him great confidence, his development this year far exceeds any prior year. As he gets older will he tend to be more proficient at one position? Sure, but I would never want to limit him. Ultimately, its the coaches decision as to where my son plays, not mine or my son's.

    As far as coaches are concerned, trust but verify.

    Congratulations on your kids' success in soccer.
     
    CornfieldSoccer repped this.
  10. Terrier1966

    Terrier1966 Member

    Nov 19, 2016
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    I only bring up what we’ve been through for the purpose of clarifying the experience we’ve had...the whole thing is 40% skill, 40% luck, 40% coaches and 40% timing:)...Could have turned out differently for any of ours based on one injury , one coaching change or one different decision.
     
    CornfieldSoccer repped this.
  11. Unnaturallybigger

    United States
    Jun 28, 2019
    Those are the same Yogi Berra percentages I'm expecting!
     
  12. CornfieldSoccer

    Aug 22, 2013

    Great article. I'd never seen that one before.

    So much of it does come down to the coaches and how their players. And like you, mine's looked like very different things to different coaches -- left fullback to a couple, center back to one, left mid to one, forward (that one week at camp ...). Coach Dad once upon a time tried to convince him he should be a keeper (tall, long arms, the position runs in the family). Thanks goodness he ignored that completely.

    The best coaches my son has had have tended to see things in a lot of their players that I and others did not. Two of them frequently used their best, most versatile players on the back line, and built their teams from there. That included in the case of the most recent club coach using his most skilled player, the kid most coaches and certainly parents see as an attacking midfielder, as a center back. That team was really, really hard to score on, and controlled a lot of games from the back line. Great coach, but too bad the club doesn't value trying to get players to college soccer (that's another long story, and touches on what Terrier said about what's right versus what works in this system).
     
  13. SuperHyperVenom

    Jan 7, 2019
    Perhaps the left back position is the one position that is the most dangerous to be pigeon holed into. I've noticed a lot of lefties are put in this position only to be bumped by a better left-footed #11. Anybody else notice this?
     
  14. Terrier1966

    Terrier1966 Member

    Nov 19, 2016
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    It may be that the rarity of left footers forces more righties to develop their left foot thus making them more useful. If a lefty were to believe their leftiness will assure them of a role then they may fall into that trap and not be as prepared for the future. (Same with first basemen or pitchers in baseball...being a lefty will help your odds but as 1,000 little league teams turn into 100 HS teams then 25 college teams you are going to run into a lot of other qualified left handers)

    If a player rises to a very high club level they will see this earlier in their life. Definitely will see it in DA and college, Pros and NTs, it is the norm.
     
    SuperHyperVenom repped this.
  15. CornfieldSoccer

    Aug 22, 2013
    I've wondered if there's more pressure on lefties to develop their right feet than on righties to become two-footed, based on how often I notice coaches "encouraging" left-footed players to work on and use their right and how little I hear right-footed players being pushed to use their left.
     
  16. Terrier1966

    Terrier1966 Member

    Nov 19, 2016
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Good point. I’m just speculating.
     
  17. AtypicalSoccerMom

    AtypicalSoccerMom New Member

    Jan 9, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My DD has played outside back for years, primarily LB. They brought a winger lefty in last year who only knew how to run up the side and cross in. LB needs a skilled defender. They are often up against the fastest offensive player. It is interesting for me to hear parents worried about their kids labeled as defenders. The most athletic kids on my DD DA team are defenders, and they build everything from the back. They need good soccer IQ and athleticism to start the attack.
     
  18. Terrier1966

    Terrier1966 Member

    Nov 19, 2016
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    It’s a long thread, included in it is the discussion of the concept that as the level increases players “only move back”.

    While not an immutable law, the preponderance of opinion is that it is more likely for players to move from wing to LB than vice versa.

    Invariably someone will point out that wasn’t the case with their player.

    There are a thousand real-life scenarios, there are plenty of wings that don’t get back or only seek to score and would never be considered a good defender. There are plenty of defenders who lack the ability to handle the ball under effective pressure or aren’t fast enough to support the attack and then get back.

    The discussion has covered a lot of ground but I think it is fair to summarize that a big factor is why the player was placed in the back, the coaching acumen of the person who made that decision, the skill of the player, the speed of the player, the formation being played and the potential that as the level increases players on the back line have competition for their job but possibly no other role to step into.

    I think everyone agrees the risk is a player getting put back there too early, not getting experience playing a 360 or 180 role and not developing the skills necessary for the next level even if they are successful at the current level.

    Others should correct my summary, I’ve got my view but it my take on a lengthy subject.
     
  19. TheKraken

    TheKraken Member

    United States
    Jun 21, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lefties live in a right-handed world, so they are usually better at adapting to using their right extremities when needed.
     
  20. Unnaturallybigger

    United States
    Jun 28, 2019
    I tend to agree. Based on my experience, left foot dominant players are generally better with their right than right footed players are with their left. (I may be biased since my son is left foot dominant). There was an interesting study that analyzed Premier League players that determined that there was essentially no such thing as a true two-footed player. Not saying that players weren't competent with their "off foot" but players dramatically use one foot over the other.

    In today's game left backs are typically attacking players. For that matter most positions are relatively fluid compared to 10-20 years ago. That's why I question the whole concept of specialization. I'm not even sure what it means and how the logistics work. Do you decide at some point your going to only play one position and tell the coach, nope I won't play position x I can only play position y? Do you only seek out teams that will allow you to play position y? For a field player I don't see how specialization is a choice, its seems that specialization is an evolution controlled mostly by your coaches that goes way beyond your high school years if you continue to play.
     
  21. CornfieldSoccer

    Aug 22, 2013
    I hadn't thought of it that way, but likely that explains a lot of it. I'm not a lefty but my soccer son is. It's interesting watching the adaptations he has to make in other areas, and often not in a negative sense -- when he played baseball as a younger kid, being a lefty definitely raised his status in the eyes of some of the dad-coaches.
     
  22. CornfieldSoccer

    Aug 22, 2013
    Absolutely. There's a lot of truth to that -- you play where you're needed. But (with older players in mind, mainly) you can look for opportunities to volunteer to move around if you're not being moved around. A coach I know who I was discussing my original question in this thread with suggested looking for chances to at least spend some time in the middle of the field dealing with the greater demands that that sometimes requires in vision and versatility. My son was able to do some of that in the fall by saying something like "I'd like to try that if the chance comes along" to one of his coaches. I give him a lot of credit for putting his hand in the air, something I didn't expect him to do.
     
  23. SuperHyperVenom

    Jan 7, 2019
    yep!

    Fast wingers are a dime a dozen. A really good CB that can direct/lead their team, has pace and can play out from the back under pressure is worth their weight in gold. That's where I'd put my leftie - even if they were short.
     
  24. Backyard Bombardier

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jun 25, 2019
    I agree. DDs small-group trainer offers special "Opposite Foot" sessions every couple of months, and I always joke with him that every session is an Opposite Foot session for her.
     

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