Post-match: Portland Timbers - San Jose Earthquakes (Saturday, 7/7) postgame thread [R]

Kip Colvey can't make the game day 18 for Colorado. Stating that his inclusion on the 2018 Quakes would put them in the playoff hunt shows a profound ignorance of soccer.

 

I may indeed be profoundly ignorant of soccer, but you have failed to make the case.

Yours is a profoundly illogical statement. The fact that someone is languishing on another team's bench does not logically support the conclusion that he could not materially help the Quakes.

Here's my syllogism:

(1) The Quakes failed to achieve several early results for lack of competent left back play, and opposing teams continue to target the left flank in their attacks.

(2) Kip Colvey has exhibited competence in his limited opportunities playing left back for the Quakes.

(3) Had Kip Colvey been playing merely competently at left back for the Quakes this season, they would have earned those several results that they missed.

(4) The several additional results would have had increased the Quakes' points in the standings, and improved the team's playoff positioning.

(5) The better positioning in the standings would have improved team morale and led to fewer instances of apathetic play, like we saw just this last weekend in Portland, further improving positioning in the standings.

You may disagree that Kip Colvey played competently for the Quakes in the past, but plenty on this board do not, and in any event disagreement about a given player's performance does not, in itself, represent profound ignorance of soccer.

 

At least 4 coaches have not rated Colvey to be a starting MLS left back. And they had the luxury of seeing him at every practice, so know his strengths and weaknesses a lot better than we do. To say he has shown some competence doesn't prove anything, the same could be said of Kofie Sarkodie. (Who was rated above Colvey by the coaches) I doubt anyone here would like to see Sarkodie back.

 

How many coaches did not rate Wondo as a starting striker?

Is Colvey a better left back than what the Quakes have on their roster currently?

 

Have we ever learned to like it?

 

From my conversation with Jesse, I believe (but am not certain) that we are working on such a model. Jesse did talk about looking for players who will fit in MLS. I think that was partly in the context of Jesse admitting to mistakes, and me pointing to Magnus and Qwiberg. I made my point of view clear that players from outside our league need to have foot speed, and be able to deal with high pressure defensive tactics all over the field.

And we discussed our team’s gross lack of coordination and cohesive play, in sharp contrast to SKC and others.

I think that Jesse feels that he and Stahre both have a steep learning curve in getting used to MLS and he thinks that they made mistakes in the pre-season which will be hard to correct until ... next pre-season. (Here I became seriously depressed.)

Go Quakes!!
I still want Blank Stahre fired!!

- Mark

 

One?

 

Colvey is a possession-oriented player. Very comfortable on the ball. A Paul Holocher guy - Barca system and all that. Makes good decisions and good passes. The only one of his 4 (3?) coaches who tends towards more of a possession game is Chris Leitch. I think there was a window, when Chris just started, where Colvey had a shot at getting some starts. But he had an injury at exactly the wrong time and the window closed. He started the 1st USOC game last year (the famed 7 key passes in the first half game), and was poised to start in the next, but was injured sometime in-between. That was very unfortunate timing, and things might have turned out differently for his future with the Quakes if he'd turned the corner there and got a few more starts (and of course if Leitch had remained coach).

By the way I count 3 MLS coaches for Colvey. Who are the 4?

 

Jesse said that he could have signed players for that much, but that the guys on the table were not up to stuff. (I think he meant older guys on the downside of their careers, who were never that great to begin with.) He said that a lot of agents are shopping guys to MLS clubs hoping for a big pay day for aging Euro guys who weren’t ever stars. Says he’s fielded a lot of those contacts.

Jesse thinks that we need to spend wisely, and he also thinks that ownership will pay for a couple of high priced players, but they’d better be good. (We’ve heard this before.)

And this goes back to indentifying the kinds of guys who will be successful in MLS. I think he’s working on a profile of the sort of player that can cut it. (And I sure hope that includes foot speed, brain speed, and ability to play under pressure. It probably does include abilty to get along with Vako, which might not be a high bar.)

And some of this is guess work on my part.

Also, I need to drink more whiskey. Just sayin’.

GO Quakes!!
Fire Dim Stahre!!

- Mark

 

Maybe one, but that was a "did not rate" of epic proportions as Wondo was passed over time after time as a starting striker by Dom as he paraded thru one alternative after another, finally culminating in what turned out to be one of the most lopsided trades in MLS history - Cam Weaver for Wondo trade. I'd say that Frank also did not rate Wondo as a starter initially, until the Quakes had some injuries at forward and it forced Frank's hand. And then he just started scoring lots of goals and he became undeniable.

Sometimes you just need to catch a break and be given a chance. A coach's perceptions in "training" are not necessary infallible.

 

Here is the challenge with the list. How many first team games did these players play with the Red Bulls? Championships?

Most of the above list didn't play for very long with the Red Bulls. Yes, the Quakes should be moving towards that model and have a late start, but they also need to find a way to keep some of those players.

 

They are cycling in new crops. Not all on the national team radar, but some are, and all are young domestic players: Tyler Adams, Sean Davis, Tommy Redding, Aaron Long, etc. They don't need to be national team players that are so good that they wind up going elsewhere (though you can potentially sell those players in order to sign more Kaku's). But the idea is to just build out as much of your core as you can with young inexpensive domestic players, and then taking that much bigger swings on your international acquisitions.

 

I think this is an example of where Chris Leitch's input is important to Jesse.

 

Not only are you cycling in new crops, you are also encouraging young players to join the youth teams with an eye towards professional minutes. If the Quakes are not signing and playing local kids, then those kids are going to go elsewhere to play and develop (see 19 year old Jonathan González who was born and raised in Santa Rosa CA and is the starting midfielder at Liga MX team Monterrey for an example).

 

Vako is enjoyable to watch with the exception of this game. I recall one instance where he had 3-4 Portland players pressing him & no one on the Quakes were attempting to be options. I think both CMs were like 10-15 yards away & not making any efforts to come towards the ball.

 

We can only hope that you are right.

And what do you bet that CL said: "That Magnus guy will blow chunks in MLS." My bet is yes, or words to that effect.

Go Quakes!!

- Mark

 

LOL. If you knew Chris you would know he would never say that or anything that sounded like that .

I expect Chris said something more like:
"Magnus has these strengths ..... He will be particularly effective if we play him thus and so or in such and such formation. He is weakest when he is expected to do 'X' and in formations like...".

In other words, he sees player's strengths and weaknesses and suggests the best ways to use a given player.

 

Probably because they made themselves available the previous 5 times and Vako ignored the pressure relief pass and turned into the second or third defender...losing possession yet again.

Imo, when Flo says we play like children, this is a prime example of that...completely toxic to team chemistry and unity. Watch how many times Wondo is in a more threatening position and Vako ignores the pass...really tragic considering Wondo makes a handful of these great little slip pass runs every game. Just another problem in a long line of problems. Jesse brought Vako in to put Wondo on the bench...Vako won't be doing Wondo any favors on the field anytime soon.

Imo, he clearly does not respect his game...and I'd love to know what Wondo really thinks of Vako...it would probably peel the paint off the walls.

 

I actually doubt that Chris had much say at all on the Magnus acquisition. He's Stahre's guy. Stahre apparently was even influential in Magnus choosing soccer over hockey. So they go way back. Stahre was likely also highly influential in the Qwiberg pickup. So I think it was a bit of a package deal.

I'd like to believe that if Leitch was still coach we wouldn't have signed Eriksson, and TT and Hyka would have gotten the majority of playing time at outside attacking mid along with Vako. Leitch was very happy with how TT played last year. He certainly wouldn't have almost completely frozen those guys out like Stahre has. And hopefully we would have signed a wing back to play on the left who turned out to be good enough to actually play in the games.

 

I actually agree with you on this. My previous post was more a comment on how Chris operates versus his involvement with Ericsson's acquisition.

My own sense of things is that Jesse had pegged Stahre over a year ago and was waiting for a time when he could get him. Jesse held onto Dom until he knew he could get Stahre. I am almost certain that Chris knew from the get go that he was a placeholder coach.

I see Chris as a career 'Quakes guy in terms of Club operations and management. I don't think he really wants to coach the team. His passion is on building the Club through its Academy and development programs. He wants to help them grow over the years. I hope he is with us for years, like Johnny Moore.

As far as Stahre goes, my bet is that Jesse was planning to gamble on him from the start and I agree with you that Eriksson and Joel are likely all Stahre. We'll see if Jesse has figured out yet that MLS is a lot harder than he thought and Stahre first thought.

 

One of them being his former national team coach and current club coach. This coach has a history with him and won’t include him in the 18.

 

And didn’t this one end up coaching him at some point as well?

 

I think Wondo started as a midfielder didn’t he? He was moved up after scoring more than our forwards at the time.

 

How's that working out for him?

 

For the coach. Not well, but better than us. As for Colvey, not sure how it’s working out.