According to the National Post, it looks like we can put an end to this Vancouver detour for now (thanks for playing Shelts): MLS in no rush to add teams in Canada http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/story.html?id=646034 With TFC's tremendous success off the field, rumours have been floating about MLS giving Canada another team. Vancouver and Montreal, both of which have teams in United Soccer Leagues' First Division, the league below MLS, have been discussed as possible destinations for MLS expansion clubs. But Gazidis made it clear that nothing was imminent . . .
To me this doesn't sound like their ruling out vancouver. Just that they want to look at the big picture before making a definite say.
It sounds more bleak for Canada overall when you read the Vancouver thread. One of the Vancouver guys posted this earlier today: "Lenarduzi stated recently that the MLS's preference is further U.S. expansion before granting Vancouver or Montreal." I think Vancouver would be great, but maybe they have tabled Canada expansion until Toronto gets a few more years under it's belt?
Two interesting tidbits. One is reliable as it is from Bob over on the offside. And here is something not very reliable from mlsrumors (I know I know but I couldn't resist skipping over MLS to PDX tidbits.)
We'll Be Coming, We'll Be Coming, We'll Be Coming Down The Road http://www.navadi.com/counterpoint.html
Re: We'll Be Coming, We'll Be Coming, We'll Be Coming Down The Road That is some of the most ridiculous shit I've ever read. PGE isn't a ********ing baseball park. It never has been. It's a greyhound race track and multipurpose field coverted to accomodate baseball, football, and soccer.
Re: We'll Be Coming, We'll Be Coming, We'll Be Coming Down The Road IMHO it is a baseball park with its current configuration.
Re: We'll Be Coming, We'll Be Coming, We'll Be Coming Down The Road Nah, the remodel was to work for all 3 sports, but most specifically baseball AND football, and it is as much the Vikings ground as anybody else's.
Re: We'll Be Coming, We'll Be Coming, We'll Be Coming Down The Road Regardless, though, it remains a fine place to watch a match, and the addition of east side seats and wider concourses for bigger crowds would pretty much quell most complaints. the fact that it used to be a racetrack/baseball field/monster truck pit doesn't really matter unless it simply doesn't work for soccer, which is demonstrably false. arguing that PGE should remain baseball-only for the 5,000 average the beavers pull, and that the Timbers' 8,000 and growing should fund an entirely new park seems fiscally irresponsible and a bit disingenuous.
Re: We'll Be Coming, We'll Be Coming, We'll Be Coming Down The Road Right, especially considering the cost of a new Soccer Stadium to suit MLS is about twice the price or more of building a AAA baseball stadium and reconfiguring PGE to be more soccer friendly.
man I would love to see some renderings of what PGE would look like after all the expected renovations
Portland 'on hold' with announcements until they get financing / request details sorted: MLS in Portland in holding pattern There is more than one way to get to a destination. I can see why Paulson and PDX politicians might want to do most if not all of the work 'behind the scenes' so that when they do finally ask for public money to redo PGE, they'll be prepared for the questions that will come their way. Seattle was hush-hush all through the 2007 process with the league. We only heard a verification of actual interest near the time of the announcement. Meanwhile, Vancouver has declared their intentions in a press release and media hype. It's hard to say which way will work first (get that club in for 2011). I think both cities need very different public / private approaches to get their deals done.
Appreciate the objective post here, seriously. The headline of the article is a bit misleading, but I'd say you've captured the gist. It's a hold off on a public unveiling that was scheduled for the coming week as recently as two weeks ago. Not great news of course, but not a retreat from the bid process at all. Paulson realizes there is one shot to get this right and doesn't want to take a risk. But, at some point, you have to have to bite the bullet.
Paulson's a smarter guy than I thought. Paulson agreed with MLS commissioner Don Garber, who called St. Louis a "strong candidate." There's a focus to get another MLS team in the Midwest, Paulson said. "So, if I'm an oddsmaker, I say St. Louis has a pretty good shot for 2011."
Bright v. Portland St. Louis, Montreal, and Vancouver have all put in formal bids with MLS, in addition to having iron-clad stadium situations (although I guess Collinsville could somehow back out, but that doesn't seem likely). Montreal and Vancouver both have super-rich owners with years of experience running successful soccer operations. Vancouver has an extensive youth and reserve system. Portland has: http://www.oregonlive.com/timbers/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/sports/121703912768610.xml&coll=7&coll=7 In addition, the politicians who say they support the bid all won't be in office until November, which means the actual political process of securing funding to build one stadium and refurbish another (that was already upgraded in 2001) won't start until next year. This political process is not guaranteed in any way shape or form to produce the best case scenario. Portland city government is traditionally against corporate welfare and for social services. The economy is slumping. The city does not have that "big city" "distant bureaucrat" mentality that will push this kind of "irresponsible" government outlay through in the current economic conditions. Compare this with New York. They have a very wealthy owner with a proven track record of big-time sports ownership. He brings synergistic business opportunities through MLB. He owns the land to build a soccer stadium, and he is rich enough to fund it himself, so he doesn't have to jump through any political hoops. MLS has been trying to get a second team in New York since the league started in 1996. - Paul
Re: Philadelphia Discussion of 2011 Expansion You are just saying that because, as everyone knows, you consider Portland your "arch rival". It's crazy how much time you spend trying to convince people that Portland doesn't exist. Crazy.
Re: Philadelphia Discussion of 2011 Expansion Dude, I am interested in the expansion process, and here is a thread on that very topic. I live right up the road, so I know a little bit about how Portland works. I also talked about 4 other cities. Sorry that you don't like how things are going. It's looking like the best rivalry in North American soccer history is likely to continue on in MLS (i.e. Vancouver gets the nod). Portland's probably going to have to wait to be #21 or later. It could have been different, but it's not. *shrug* - Paul
Re: Philadelphia Discussion of 2011 Expansion Bright has a fair point... EXCEPT... This is where the stereotyping hits the brick wall. This is where the stereotyping turns on its head. Unlike, say, the Blazer fan base, a good number of Timbers Army are active in the city, has ties with the city... and Sam Adams does have a thing for style and big projects. "We think" we have 3 votes on a 5-soul council already. The devil's in the details, of course, it's possible one of those three will have "conditions" of note, and there's sure to be some sort of backlash from SOME constituency within the city. It'll also result in a more public process than most cities. Still, as someone who has had ties with the city, I can say with confidence that Portland's chances are a lot stronger with Adams than with the current joke of a mayor... and similarly more than bright's assessment.
Re: Philadelphia Discussion of 2011 Expansion That's true, Saputo does need to be expanded. In a sense, they are in the same boat as Portland in that you've got two USL teams playing in stadiums that would be home to expansion MLS sides, but both need significant upgrade work. Both teams would play in their stadiums over several seasons while the upgrades were taking shape. Montreal is in much better shape of the two though given that the upgrades would be privately funded, but if both stadiums can get funded from their respective sources, the two cities are otherwise roughly in the same boat as far as needing upgrades to an existing stadium. Vancouver is in a much trickier situation. How often has MLS granted a team to a market that offered a temporary home on the promise of building a permanent home somewhere else, and then have those plans stall for years? Neither Portland or Montreal would have that problem because if either got in, they will have already locked up plans to upgrade their permanent homes.
Re: Philadelphia Discussion of 2011 Expansion Portland has nothing locked up. The government can't even start addressing the need to build a new baseball stadium and renovate PGE Park (already renovated in 2001) until November. That process will take months. Montreal can start upgrading their stadium immediately. Furthermore, Montreal has grass in their stadium, and they are the exclusive tenants. PGE Park has an artificial surface, and a minor league baseball team and a college football team also play there. You can't put the cart before the horse. Portland is not a serious candidate relative to Montreal, St. Louis, and Vancouver until they get their stadium situation sorted out. Say what you want about Vancouver: they actually have a stadium that is up to MLS standards that is already approved for extensive renovations. Portland does not. Additionally, we don't even know who else is part of Portland's ownership group. It's just Paulson saying that he's working on it. How is that any different than what's going on in St. Louis with Cooper? Vancouver and Montreal are both solid on the ownership front. So, Montreal and Vancouver: solid ownership, solid stadium situation. St. Louis: solid stadium situation, questionable ownership (because of what MLS has been implying). Portland: questionable ownership, questionable stadium situation. - Paul
Re: Philadelphia Discussion of 2011 Expansion Wrong. Nobody is waiting until November. City council meetings are occurring regularly to finalize the financing plan. If it ever gets done, it will be done well before November. Please try again. I don't know that any of these cities have a permanent stadium that is MLS ready today. What? I thought you knew the inside track on all this? I can't believe Paulson hasn't picked up the phone and called you personally. If you don't know that, how can we believe you have anything valuable to say about Portland?
Re: Philadelphia Discussion of 2011 Expansion Really? http://www.portlandonline.com/auditor/index.cfm?c=26997&a=204984 They will be MLS ready in 2011. Whatever needs to be done to make it so has already been funded and planned. Vancouver has BC Place locked up, and the renovations are approved. Montreal has the explansion of Saputo Stadium planned out and funded. St. Louis has a stadium funded and ready to begin construction. Without the money (from the government or from Paulson) to fund the building of a new baseball stadium and renovations to PGE Park, all Portland has is PGE Park -- an old baseball stadium with field turf, shared with a baseball team and a college football team, without wide enough concourses and not enough bathrooms, and the inability to make enough ancillary revenue for it to be MLS-worthy. Vancouver, Montreal, St. Louis: funded and ready to go Portland: not funded and not ready to go - Paul
Re: Philadelphia Discussion of 2011 Expansion Are we considering that big, soon-to-be-remodeled, dome thing in Vancouver a suitable MLS venue now? What about the actual soccer stadium that has been held up in government for the past 5 years?