Hi folks. US fan here, and I've a question for Canadian fans as to the popularity of this wonderful game in your terrific country? Here is where I'm coming from: It is my contention, that the United States is going to find it practically impossible to be one of the top dogs in the men's game globally unless/until the sport becomes top 3 or 4 in the US. I've seen TV viewing stats which indicate that, while it has certainly grown in popularity, it is still far behind other, more traditional sports in the US.; basketball, N. American football, baseball, ice hockey, and probably even golf are more popular. There may be others, as well. There are likely many USMNT fans who would disagree with that assessment, but I stick to it. For now. Here is my question for this board: where does soccer rank in terms of popular support/interest in Canada? Certainly ice hockey is #1, I take it, but after that, where would you rate it? And, further, since Canada does not seem to do all that well in the sport (somewhat behind the US, at least over the last 20 yrs. or so), do you think it is because of where the game ranks on the 'totem pole' of interest in Canada? And, if so, can Canada (I'm talking primarily the men's game here) rise up if the game became more popular? I must say, the US is large enough that top 3, or even 4 may be enough, but would soccer in Canada, having a smaller pop., need to be, say, #2 to ice hockey? Thanks for any responses. FYI, I find this topic fascinating, others may not agree...
To your first point, I would say that the USMNT is already very competitive. They are now regularly making it to the World Cup and even competing strongly there. Sure they're not favourites to win the Cup, but I see them becoming even stronger in the upcoming years. To your second point, hockey reigns supreme and will continue to do so in the near and medium term future. There are signs that its popularity is waning, largely due to the fact that it's a very expensive sport to participate in. Historically, baseball and gridiron football have been the next most popular sports, but from my own observations, basketball and soccer are in the process of surpassing them. Participation rates for those two sports for children have grown massively in the past decade. The main factor in terms of professional sports is that there's less competition up here. Outside of Toronto, cities in Canada have only NHL and / or CFL for major professional sports, so there's more room for soccer clubs to gain an audience than there is in the US where soccer clubs have much more competition.
In Canada, we have the strange conundrum where sports with large participation rates ie soccer and basketball have abysmally small TV ratings. Some sports ie football, baseball, curling with much lower participation rates have huge television ratings. Canadian football television ratings dwarf both NBA and MLS and often rival NHL ratings and the above isn't likely to change in the near future. Go figure!
Thanks for responding. I guess I see the USMNT a bit differently, or else I'm misinterpreting your post. The US team is pretty clearly not in that top tier of teams globally, and I'm not sure how difficult it is going to be to crack that group. They are making the WC regularly, now, but CONCACAF is not the most difficult confederation out there. But I'm going kinda OT... Interesting about hockey, I would have thought it would always be the most popular, but then baseball was once the most popular in the US, yet it's not now. It's certainly a good thing if soccer, along with basketball are surpassing those others. And not surprising since they are #1 & 2 worldwide in terms of popularity for team sports. That is a great point about less sports competition, and bodes well for soccer in Canada. I wonder, when do you think Canada will be seriously vying regularly for one of those 3 CONCACAF WC bids? It would be great if Canada were making it w/ regularity, as well. From my US perspective, I'd personally like another rival in the mix along w/ Mexico, though oddly the US-Canada have only played about half as much as US-Mexico.
Thanks for replying. Interesting about the TV ratings for soccer and basketball. Basketball does well in US, not so much soccer, overall. Curling is a fascinating factoid, interesting sport from what I've seen, but I guess maybe a more winter sports culture in Canada, whereas some parts of the US are not so Winter sporty. Of course, I can maybe see some similarities in the speed of the 'action' in both baseball and curling. Certainly similarities b/w Canada and US, and not too surprising, given that both have a fair amount of ownership, or more, in those sports. A man from Canada invented basketball, gridiron football somehow evolved from rugby, or soccer or something but both countries played a part in making it so. Baseball, too, I suppose, or maybe Baseball was more Us-y, and ice hockey was more Canada-y? Not sure, but they both probably played roles in those as well. Just out of curiosity, what is the interest level in lax in Canada? It's been becoming very hot in the US. Another very North American game, given its heritage. Hard to give up on sports that are so much a part of the national past and culture. Of course both countries just developed their own sports and, it's not like they didn't both get the game of footie from England, and early on really, but it always kinda got lost in the mix. At least that's my take on it. I hope to see Canada in the men's WC in future w/ regularity (as long as it doesn't come at the US's expense )
It's not oddly. It's because at the end of this year USA and Mexico will have played 8 WCQs against each other more recently than USA played any WCQs against Canada.
It's a matter of perspective. In the US, you're used to becoming a dominant force in just about any sport you take on. In Canada we expect to being dominant in hockey and curling but not much else. So what might be seen to you as not so great looks like a grand achievement to us. Soccer is different from other sports though. Most sports have only a few countries where it is significantly popular so there are only a few seriously competitive nations. Soccer on the other hand is so diversely popular that there is a huge field of competitive countries and thus more difficult for any country to rise to the top (and stay there). Hence why the World Cup is the biggest sporting event in the world, by a long shot. The US does indeed have a very long way to go before it could be associated with the likes of Argentina, Spain, Brazil or Germany, but there are a great number of soccer mad countries out there who would love to be in the position that the USA is in right now. Canada is a long way behind and it'll be a very long time, if ever, before World Cup appearances are a regular thing for us. That's why Mexico is and always will be your main rival.
I find this topic pretty fascinating too. I'd say soccer, at least in Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver, is at #2 in popularity, behind hockey of course, but catching up. Go anywhere else in the country though, and hockey is still king and gridiron is a clear #2. IMO, it's as popular here, if not more so, than in the US. The main reason we lag so far behind as that the US has been able to spend money on development and has created, from what I've seen anyway, a half-decent development plan that will only get better, while Canada's development infrastructure is still, besides the three MLS academies, virtually nothing, though that too seems to be changing. Still, the effects won't be felt for a very long time. But basically, you guys develop players better than we do. Another thing is, among soccer fans in Canada, european and high-quality international soccer is still much more popular than the domestic game. World Cup or Euro games honestly dominate sports conversation whenever they're on, as does the Champions League in the latter stages (and the UCL and EPL always get pretty good ratings throughout the year). In Toronto at least TFC is still somewhat popular (though not as much as the early days and never as much as the European game), but the Canadian national team is waaay further down the scale. Almost everyone chooses to support another national team, even if they don't have any true roots to another country. the Canadian national team is seen as weak and embarrassing, and though there was some rising support during the world cup campaign, it was completely erased after 8-1. "Eurosnobs" and lack of NT support are problems the USA struggle a lot with too, but IMO the US MNT as significantly better supported than the CanMNT, by a mile. There's also the fact that the US is, yknow, like 10x bigger than us population-wise. But mostly I think it's our player development and lack of interest in the NT (and possibly lack of national pride) that holds us back the most. JMO
Soccer is, in a relative sense, more popular in Canada than it is in the United States. People here in Vancouver are gravitating toward the Whitecaps as being the more popular choice as a 2nd team as opposed to the BC Lions Canadian football team. Football is losing popularity and baseball was never very followed to begin with so it allows for the soccer franchise to flourish. If Vancouver still had basketball though I'd argue it would be more popular, at least through the younger crowd, than soccer. But that doesn't take away from the fact that it is the sport with the most youth participation in the province of British Columbia. It is a bit surprising that basketball has the amount of participation that it does yet Canada as a nation stinks at basketball. The problems with the national team stem from an improper developmental system. Many great players are being ignored in our current system and I'd argue what you see out of our current system on the Senior National Team is 10-15% of the best talent that is actually out there in our Canada. This is why the National Program in Canada has done so poorly as compared to the size of participation all throughout Canada.
Thanks for the responses. I find it fascinating, and very promising for you that soccer has or could be moving into the #2 spot in what are Canada's 3 largest cities. In an interesting aside, is this kind of a cultural divide b/w the Metropolises and the more traditional hinterlands? I think the South in the US has been slow to warm to Assoc. football over gridiron football. Of course it's such a big part of the culture there, as well. I've read a number of different posters mention that your MNT is poorly run. If that can be fixed, and I believe Canada just got a new HC, then if he is given the support and authority, he could really turn things around pretty quickly if so much talent is not being utilized. It will take a lot of hard work, and some serious $'s, but this is hardly an insurmountable obstacle for Canada. It is a wealthy country. Canada has a pop. of what, 30-40 mil.? That is plenty of people to produce a high level of talent to choose from if the soccer culture is improved and developmental system. CONCACAF is not a strong confederation, we all know this. Yet there are 3 bids, maybe another if the #4 team beats the Oceania Rep (not sure how long that set-up is in place, tho-). I like Canada's future, they really could be a power in this sport coming out of this region. I'd also add that, yeah, the Euro leagues, EPL, Serie A, etc.. are followed and many US fans have their favorite teams from there. I think MLS is improving, it has been a pretty obvious minor league to those other leagues, but I think slowly but surely it has improved over the years. How long it will take to be on par w/ those others? Who knows.
I have to take issue with several points made in this post. As for baseball being never very followed, Vancouver has a long baseball history (Vancouver Canadians) and at the time BC Place was built to accommodate both the soccer and a future MLB baseball team. Many great players have come from BC including future Hall of Famer Larry Walker. As for the "waning" popularity of the football team it is strange that the upper deck of BC Place is open for the football team and closed for the Whitecaps. Rabid soccer fans in Canada love to speak of the demise of baseball but I watched a Jays game the other day and was amazed to see the number of young women there, a demographic that soccer fans seem to want to discourage. I wouldn't say that Canada "stinks" in basketball and certainly if that situation exists it won't last long. There's a good possibility Andrew Wiggins will go number one in the NBA draft next year meaning Canada would have two number one picks in consecutive years (Anthony Bennett this year) They are building a program that is looking to be number one in the world ( a long way from "stinks") As for players being ignored in the soccer development system, that is the biggest bunch of poop I've ever heard. CSA haters always say this and yet when asked who are the players (and coaches for that matter) being ignored they never seem to be able to come up with an answer. The fact is at this moment we are at a low ebb in player development. The previous incarnation of the Nats were able to secure employment with some decent European clubs and this latest generation for the most part hasn't. Part of that may be that instead of going to Europe at a young age they are being developed nearer home in the MLS. I have been hearing the same junk for 30 years, how soccer will rise and become the number one sport. Soccer participation rates have always been high, it's only now where players have a place where they can aspire to go (MLS) that is more within their grasp. It's the same conundrum that has happened in the US. They always said that with all the kids playing soccer they would grow up to watch soccer. That hasn't proven to be the case for at least 30 years.
If I were to list out players that were ignored and are currently playing 2nd division or 1st division local leagues or just stopped playing because there was no future in the sport for them there would be no point for it since you'll never know who they are. I'm not hating on the CSA I'm hating on the soccer system in British Columbia alone. I don't know anything about soccer outside of BC so I can't comment on that. All it is in BC is you're either in the Whitecaps program or your team wins a Provincial A championship, then you have a chance to get somewhere. Otherwise, you're just a nobody unless you get special training outside of the country. I don't know if it's that way in the other provinces but that's the reality here in BC. I have talked to many people who've grown up with the youth set-up here and that is the consensus they've come up with. As for the whole "opening the upper deck" issue, the Whitecaps are a new MLS franchise and no one was sure how popular the team would be so they didn't take any risks (as they shouldn't). There's still sell outs in it's 3rd season which is saying something in a league which is undeniably 2nd tier compared to the top leagues around the world with a team which is full of non-Canadians. If there's more local flavour on that team I'm sure there would be more acceptance of soccer as a whole from Vancouverites. If you want to compare the attendance figures just have in the back of your mind that the BC Lions have been a CFL team for 55 years. That gives them an edge in overall attendance because everyone who's grown up here has grown up with them and football is traditionally well supported in the West. I don't think anyone believes soccer will trump hockey as the #1 sport here but I do feel, as a young Vancouverite (23 years old), that there is a legitimate shift in my generation toward soccer over sports like football and baseball. At school many students are watching the Champions League games and while the World Cup or Euro are on there's a crowd in front of every TV screen. I'm not saying this because I love soccer. I'm trying to be as objective as I can. You can either take this with a grain of salt and put me in the file with all those soccer hopefuls you've known in the past or you can actually listen to a young person from BC who's trying to give you a fresh perspective on Generation Y'ers who live here. I was told by a man in his late 40s who I used to work with that there was no way the Whitecaps would have enough fans to support the franchise over a long period time; that it was unsustainable. Now the average attendance figures are above 19,000 like the other 2 Canadian teams which is nothing to gawk at. And as far as the baseball argument goes, apparently the developmental system is amazing because for the youth here in BC, baseball is not popular in the region. Say all you want about Vancouver having a baseball team and that a lot of the Canadian major leaguers are from here, it's still not a popular sport here. It is an ethnically caucasian dominated sport in a place which is culturally diverse. It must not register in your mind that having lots of pros in the big leagues who are from here isn't in correlation to participation in the sport with youth, but that's the truth. I don't know how to explain this phenomenon. I can't comment on what I don't know I can only comment on what I do know. This is a much more detailed post than I wanted to make but I didn't think someone would seriously pick apart the post that much. Especially from someone who is a clear outsider of BC when I made it clear in my post that I was only posting about my province and not Canada as a whole.
Hockey. Even when it is NOT the most popular sport in a community it still is the sport that drives the decision making in Canada. Perhaps American football has similar influence in some markets of the US. Urban planners in a large city / suburb named Brampton on the skirts of Toronto used foresight to allot land and $$ to build a new community center including a couple of ice surfaces. Many years later when the population was big enough to go ahead with construction the game of hockey was no longer the number one sport. Soccer and Cricket had taken over. Even the top ranked junior hockey team left town. So what to do with the plans for constructing the community center ??? Instead of creating an indoor field ( it snows now and again up here ) the town was convinced to go ahead and build the rinks but lay down artificial because ... hockey might comeback ! To their credit the town has since opened many outdoor fields but they are still in need of an indoor surface for the winter months.
Soccer is getting up there in Ottawa as well some have said more kids play soccer then hockey while other say both have the same to add to the fire a new project under construction in West Ottawa will have 10 soccer fields while another project in the east end will have 8 new fields.
Excellent ! Ottawa is a great place for athletics and the Fury run a good program. See you next summer at the WWC. Will they remove the CFL lines from the field at Lansdowne ?
Yes that is already in place. The field in converted from football to soccer and vice versa depending on what sport is played of course. It is a process that takes a full day to do and the Fury has adapted some scheduled games to go with a Friday Night CFL game with an NASL Fury match on Sunday afternoons. IGF in Winnipeg and THF in Hamilton both have the same ability. As well FCE has that at Clarke now and BC place has been doing it as well. Commonwealth also has the ability when National or international matches are played.
The Fury having an already Adademy system in place has made soccer a great option and an easy transition to the NASL. Having both full Male and Female academies the new fields will be fully used at all diferent levels and programs.
That is exactly what has been laid out across Canada with the arena's infrastructure and Colder region of Canada lends itself to indoor sports and hockey is still the standard in Canada. The junior Hockey system is the standard for develop for other countries around the world. The infrastructure for out door sport as soccer if being put into place that also serves gridiron football with new stadiums and indoor training facilities and outdoor fields. Toronto, Vancouver, and Now Montreal are building up the better training facilities and is spreading into surrounding areas. Other cities are building as well now through a variety of partnerships including CFL and CIS football.
Taking an overview look you are right about BC but it does have the potential for growth. PCSL looks to be the main system right now and uses the little football infrasture that is up. Although Victoria soccer looks to be the main sport on VI. With the Highlanders a part of the USL leagues. WhiteCaps I think to poach the best players from them but have a full system and community backing in place. Caps partnering with New Westiminster placing their Minor league club there. Will have a reno'd stadium converted for soccer the possibility of a better youth system secondary to the WCs is possible. Still leaving the rest of BC without. WHL junior hockey infrastructure within BC is no doubt head above every other sport. Alberta is building infrastrure around FCE but still behind Vancouver.
If you are referring the Brampton Soccer Centre.....you couldn't have the facts much wronger if you had actually set out to be wrong. If you are talking about another facility that I am not aware of....I apologize. As for outdoor fields.....I grew up in Brampton in the 70s......and since that time we have never been short of municipally built/operated outdoor soccer pitches.
Wait until you see what Caledon has planned for an area along old church road. It's like Eglinton Flats on steroids.