Poll: where would you rank the US U-17 to U-20?

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by kolabear, Oct 27, 2016.

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Where would you rank the US women's U-17 to U-20 teams?

Poll closed Dec 27, 2016.
  1. Top Five

    6 vote(s)
    40.0%
  2. Top Ten (6-10)

    8 vote(s)
    53.3%
  3. Top 15 (11-15)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Not top 15 (16+)

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  1. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Taking the US women's youth teams collectively from U-17 to U-20, would you rank them in the top 5 in the world?
     
  2. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    It's unanimous...so far. I put them top 10. Just too much talent to put them lower IMO
     
  3. Airox

    Airox Member

    Mar 14, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can I wait to answer until after U20s play? :)
     
  4. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Although the U17 haven't had much success, the U20 have won 2 world cups. That's why I'd have to give the a top 10 rating. Perhaps if the USA invested in better coaching the talent would translate into more success in the future. I wonder if they ever considered looking overseas for youth level coaches?
     
  5. olelaliga

    olelaliga Member

    Aug 31, 2009
    We would be greatly served if the USSF insisted on a Japanese coach to replace out "technical" director. He could then set the curriculum and manage the other age groups. Possibly serve as the U17 coach himself.
     
    MiLLeNNiuM repped this.
  6. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seeing the wailing and gnashing of teeth as people have to retract their opinions is half the fun.

    So far, by the way, in early polling, it's still unanimous.

    Early polling results (open)
    Top 10 but not Top 5
     
  7. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess most people agree that in Asia at least Japan and North Korea are stronger than the US at the U-17 to U-20 level?

    Do people think in Africa, either Ghana or Nigeria (or both) might be stronger?

    In Europe - Germany, France, and Spain? (But not England? What about Sweden?)

    In South America -???? It seems a lot of people don't rate the Brazil youth teams that highly? So Brazil and Colombia may be close to the US but not above it?
     
  8. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    You mean so we can get their all time results at the senior level?
    (1 gold, one silver)


    No thanks.
     
  9. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    As evidenced by what?

    Ok, maybe u17.
    There have been 5 u17 competitions. Except for Japan, u17 doesn't say much about any subsequent results moving higher in the age groups including the seniors.
    North Korea, South Korea, and France haven't done much above that age.
    So Germany and the USA don't do well at that age. So what?


    Moving up, There have been 7 competitions at u19-20 since 2002

    Germany won three. The USA won three. North Korea won the other, but since they have used overage players and Deer musk, I'm not sure that says anything.


    Again. What is the evidence other teams are better or close at u20? Doesn't a team have to win something first?

    A few years ago pundits here were predicting Spain would rule over all soon. What happened?
     
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  10. olelaliga

    olelaliga Member

    Aug 31, 2009
    Yes thanks.
    If our more athletic kids could widen their scope to include more of the technical and tactical game of the Japanese, we would clearly have better results than the Japanese full national team and better results than we have now. Your point is not valid that there would be an extension of their results to us if we improved our technique and tactics. I am not saying clone the Japanese. I am saying add that flavor to our team and there is a potential recipe to greater success.
     
    MiLLeNNiuM repped this.
  11. olelaliga

    olelaliga Member

    Aug 31, 2009
    If you think first touches bouncing 5 yards from our players, late passes behind a runner, limited options because kids are standing behind their defenders, kids panicking because their time and space is closed down (in part because of their poor first touch) so that they launch a 50-50 forward in response is acceptable in a u17 international player, then I guess we will agree to disagree. One of my USA-Japan "favorites"- winger "crossing" a ball into a back making a recovery run (good run -bright spot- but ignored) literally 2 feet from her. That event was disturbing to anyone with an interest in youth development. Similarly the u20 NTC was disturbing, but mostly because the offense was so anemic. With the addition of Pugh and Sanchez (clearly the bright spot in the 17 debacle- but lets see if her individualistic game will translate to the higher levels) there is hope that the 20s will experience more success.

    The 17s didn't have the sophisticated tactics nor the technique of the Japanese and conversely didn't have the athleticism of the Africans, and so we were left with a mediocre team with mediocre results when it mattered.

    The jury is obviously still out on the 20s. I think French has essentially had them in a residency all fall so hopefully the funds will pay off. Of course if they tank people will say, well all the best 20s weren't there because some chose to stay with their college teams. Just like the excuse is again well the point of the 17s is to develop Full NT players so my decision to bring along 4 01s was in keeping with the mission of the u17 YNT. I say baloney part of development is learning to win when it matters, showing passion and character on the field to pull it out when it matters. These youth events are trials to see if kids have what it takes to do that and ours failed. Even Ellis agrees that technique was their downfall. whether she does something about that- like directing her YNT coaches to pull more technical players into YNT camps remains to be seen.
     
    kolabear repped this.
  12. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Perhaps I should've put a time frame on the question. I think it was implied but I didn't have in mind an all-time ranking.

    But glancing at the U-17 to U-20s since 2010 (Chile), it's pretty clear to me what many others have been saying about the rest of the world catching up. And yet, despite the setback in the Olympics, the US has unquestionably been one of the top two or three teams at the senior level during the same time.

    So what keeps the US at the top, besides the coaching (a conclusion which most people seem unable to accept for some reason :)) College soccer immediately comes to mind. It keeps a bigger part of the talent pool playing at that age. It isn't necessarily better than playing in the European pro leagues (the French league, Frauen-Bundesliga, Damallsvenskan) -- and of course many think it's worse -- except it keeps a lot more of them in the game at a high level. How many get contracts at that age to play for an Olympique-Lyonnais versus the number who get NCAA scholarships?

    Also very important is the US Soccer Federation's support of its women's team. At any given time, it's paying around 24 top American players to keep playing past the youth stage. Very few other federations come close to that. Certainly not Spain, not Nigeria, not Colombia, not Brazil.

    If and when more clubs like Wolfsburg, Bayern Munich, Manchester City put money into their women's clubs and support talented players not only from their respective home countries but from nations around the world -- the Colombias, the Spains, the Nigerias -- we will see the rest of the world quickly catching up to the US at the senior level just as it has at the U-17 and U-20 level.
     
  13. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    After winning the U20WC (2008, Chile), Tony DiCicco included the warning that USSoccer shouldnt consider this victory as a sign that the status quo is working in his season report. Since then they have had one quality team IMO (2012, Japan U20) and that team was the last team to get in the knockout stage from their group
     
    kolabear repped this.
  14. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except for 2014 U20 WWC, right?
     
  15. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    No, I didnt phrase that very well. The 2012 U20 won the WC but of the eight teams to get out of group into the knockout round, they qualified with the lowest number of points (4) and beat out China on GD so even though they won they nearly didnt get out of group.
     
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  16. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ah, I got you. I thought you were saying that 2012 was the last time the US made it to the knockout rounds.
     
    blissett repped this.
  17. WWC_Movement

    WWC_Movement Red Card

    Dec 10, 2014
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Papua New Guinea
    Top 5 (based on individual talent), if we're excluding coaching.
     
  18. olelaliga

    olelaliga Member

    Aug 31, 2009
    Disagree. Their relative collective weakness save possibly Sanchez was fully on display when they were limited in time and space. Can't have a first touch bounce five yards from you with athletic Ghanaians pouncing or with the organized Japanese that always seem to have two players where you don't want them. They did not have adequate close control to mange a couple of deceptions to create time and space. Their soccer iq was lacking so that when a player did somehow have a moment to look up there weren't options available because there were few intelligent runs being made (there were a few that largely went unrewarded). When the GK "assists" the only goal in the run of play duing a game one must scratch his head over the tactical sophistication of this team. The coach wasn't on the field the players were.
     
  19. WWC_Movement

    WWC_Movement Red Card

    Dec 10, 2014
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Papua New Guinea
    Outside of Japan, North Korea, Spain, and Germany, who else is better?
    Possibly France, but no one else.
     
  20. olelaliga

    olelaliga Member

    Aug 31, 2009
    Uh yeah
    I think I would start with Ghana...
    Then I would say no way is it a given they beat Venezuela or Cameroon.
    England's developmental trajectory was steeper than theirs so I would add them as a probability. Also I am thinking they tied Brazil before they left for Jordan so not exactly a given there either. Mexico they beat in Cincacaf by a goal but again trajectory there was in favor of the Mexicans. So there's a start off the top of my head

    Dude own it. You were spouting all over how great this team was and beat on me when I raised a flag regarding my question their technical ability to handle compromised time and space against athletic and organized teams. You were wrong. My concern proved valid. I saw the poor touches and low soccer IQ as a potential problems before the Ghana game. I also think mentally they were weak and didn't know how to battle the Ghanaians when they needed to win. Maybe even thought, well we beat the Japanese before so we are good anyway. They aren't good. Just a fact at this point in time.

    Despite their recent poor showing, I actually have a little more hope for the 20s. Their midfield is much better. I like cousins as a possession oriented player with unusually developed technical ability (there put myself out there agin if Katie has a a bad tourney) yup she's short so that could be her downfall- time will tell. C'mon Katie: Feed the beasts of Pugh and Sanchez.
     
  21. Namdynamo

    Namdynamo Member+

    Jan 1, 2005
    Wait until FIFA starts doing bone scan for the girl's youth teams in major tournaments like they do with the boy's (to see if they are age cheating). The Ghana and North Korea will be dropping like flies.
     
  22. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Virginia
    Is there any evidence to support that?
     
  23. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I want to know who the heck voted "Not Top 15?" There is 1 vote for that category.
     
  24. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Virginia

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