players wanted ellis out last year

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by luvdagame, Jul 27, 2018.

  1. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    #1 luvdagame, Jul 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
    • ...but gulati told them she was not going anywhere.
    https://www.si.com/soccer/2018/07/2...ncerned-jill-ellis-firing-jaelene-hinkle-call

    (my bold/underline)...way to make your point, sunil.
     
  2. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
  3. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nice to hear that it isn't only the fans who feel Ellis simply isn't doing a good job. Have to think tho that only the extremely unlikely failure to qualify could actually get her out at this point.
     
  4. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Veteran players" .... Which ones?
     
  5. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Any one who actually plays under a decent coach? :whistling:
     
  6. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    since it was during last year's ton, who were the vets on that team?

    #ToN2017 ROSTER BY POSITION (Club; Caps/Goals)
    GOALKEEPERS (3): Alyssa Naeher (Chicago Red Stars; 15/0), Jane Campbell (Houston Dash; 1/0), Abby Smith (Boston Breakers; 0/0)

    DEFENDERS (7): Abby Dahlkemper (NC Courage; 4/0), Julie Ertz (Chicago Red Stars; 49/8), Ali Krieger (Orlando Pride; 98/1), Kelley O’Hara (Sky Blue FC; 96/2), Becky Sauerbrunn (FC Kansas City; 126/0), Casey Short (Chicago Red Stars; 10/0), Taylor Smith (NC Courage; 0/0)

    MIDFIELDERS (6): Morgan Brian (Houston Dash; 66/6), Carli Lloyd (Houston Dash; 239/97), Allie Long (Portland Thorns FC; 27/5), Samantha Mewis (NC Courage; 25/4), Margaret Purce (Boston Breakers; 0/0), Megan Rapinoe (Seattle Reign FC; 121/31)

    FORWARDS (7): Crystal Dunn (Chelsea FC; 52/22), Lindsey Horan (Portland Thorns FC; 35/3), Sydney Leroux (FC Kansas City; 75/35), Alex Morgan (Orlando Pride; 125/73), Christen Press (Chicago Red Stars; 87/42), Mallory Pugh (Washington Spirit; 23/4), Lynn Williams (NC Courage; 8/2)

    krieger? brunn? o'hara? lloyd? pinoe? morgan? press? veteran players who were dropped (can't remember which one's)?
     
  7. Dundalk24

    Dundalk24 Member

    Jul 20, 2007
    PA/OH
    Does it matter? We shouldn't just assume these "veterans' were speaking as individuals. Often times leaders of teams, usually veterans, will bring concerns to coaches/management on behalf of the whole team. It doesn't mean younger players didn't also have the same concerns. Maybe they had similar misgivings that were just as strong or stronger.

    I've been in the position in my life as a leader/spokesperson in my job. I've been falsely branded as a troublemaker, pot stirrer by outsiders. When the reality is my own positions were often more tentative and circumspect. Sometimes I didn't even really agree with the complaints I was forwarding. That I wasn't a firebrand was why I was viewed as somebody with a measure of credibility to go along with my tenure on the job. Sure it's possible you could have assertive prima donnas looking out for their own interests rather than the team's. Of course that would make them very poor leaders. But personally I see little utility inquiring or speculating on which veteran players spoke up as it doesn't necessarily provide any insights.
     
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  8. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    The strange thing about this kind of statement is that teams under Ellis keep wining important games. I do not believe a "bad" coach could amass the record she has even with the talent pool she has to draw on.
     
  9. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Since the article has generated some discussion, it does matter at least if the discussion is going to continue. On the other hand, you're absolutely right we shouldn't just assume the referred to veterans were speaking as individuals. We shouldn't assume anything at all. The article doesn't tell much of anything that has significance, especially today.
     
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  10. Tracer

    Tracer Member

    Apr 22, 2016
    New York
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The most amazing part of this story to me is that the players complained to Gulati during TON, so July - August, and he responded in December!
     
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  11. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    I have never thought Ellis was a good coach and her WC win was more a case of injuries forcing her to make changes and those changes worked out than any brilliant coaching. We were likely headed out.

    Watching the USA vs Japan, Im still not comfortable that we are progressing much and I blame Ellis. We really should play much more short pass and ball control but we dont. I will say, the game against Australia will tell us a lot. They beat us last time and tore Brazil apart. If we dont stack up against them then this Ellis debate will ramp up.

    Sunil is gone... maybe it's time to have that Ellis discussion again?
     
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  12. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    How much of a pool does she have? The contracts limit her ability to call up players. That being said, we should have replaced Ellis a while ago.
     
  13. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    So you want possession for possession's sake. I have never been a fan of the possession game as it is played over most of the world as it leads to a false and dangerous sense of security and that leads to dangerous counter attacks while keeping the score low so the counters can have a disproportional effect on match results.

    Any team that over emphasis any one style is doomed to failure. The US and any other side that desires to be world class needs to be able to play the quick attack and the possession game and even bunker as needed. The US WNT seems to be able to do that.

    The one thing that the US seems to be missing, as are a LOT of other teams, is the ability to take dangerous shots from outside and that is something that is player not coaching based unless the coach actively discourages it. Almost all the shots taken by the US from well outside the box miss badly and that is related to individual practice ethics. Team practices do not have time to have long range shooting practices players must take the time on their own to hone that skill and the players must not accept misses or near misses as successes. Close does not equal goals it equals failure.

    Fans and commentators are at fault for praising and cheering missed shots and that is very sad. If the US could shoot from outside with effect it would become MUCH easier to break bunkers and tight defenses and again that is not a coaching problem.

    I think Ellis has done a decent job but she has a problem getting shooters into the pool as good shooters are often seen as selfish and not "team" players and maybe that is her fault but I blame people much further down the food chain. So many people have been brainwashed into believing that the phrase "There is no 'I' in team" is the key to success but as Michael Jordan said to that, "There is in win."

    The US needs new good shooters not more or different coaches. It is easy to blame the coaches when things are not perfect and it is easiest and cheapest to change the coaches when things are not going well but, in this case, things are going pretty well and I see little need to change the coach but I do see a need to add a few players. Right now we have a BUNCH of players that can pass and even shoot when well set up but we have very few that are simply finishers or that can shoot from deep and that is what we need if we are going to continue to beat teams that have figured out how to really play defense and counter.
     
  14. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    I don't know what Ellis's coaching strengths and weaknesses are; or whether she is a good communicator or not--but the fact is, she wins games. By my count the team is 29-3-4 since July of 2016. The losses were to Australia, France and England, but we also beat England. We've only played Australia once in 24 months--a 1-0 loss--so the upcoming game against Australia will be interesting. In our last two games against France we've got a loss and a tie. Other than that, we've beaten everybody, including one win and a tie against Canada. It's a tough job given that everyone apparently thinks we should beat /everybody/ 3-0. That's not going to happen. There are some other very good teams, and the women's game is getting increasingly competitive.
     
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  15. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Why? She keeps winning and winning important matches and THAT is the real measure of a coach. It is not how well she or he is liked by either players or fans or anyone else but it is, at this level, all about winning and that she has done in spades and unless that changes she will continue to coach the WNT unless she retires or really screws something up or someone above her goes insane. The last, from what I have seen about the top end of US soccer, is the most likely.
     
  16. CoachJon

    CoachJon Member+

    Feb 1, 2006
    Rochester, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes a bad coach could; see the Greg Ryan saga.
     
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  17. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    We haven't had an important match since the Olympics. The two things that concern me are the fact she has lost the locker and our style of play. We are still relying on athleticism and individual skill as opposed to playing like a team. The score was favorable to us yesterday and I'm not sure if Ellis has the tactical knowledge to advance the team.
     
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  18. BlueCrimson

    BlueCrimson Member+

    North Carolina Courage
    United States
    Nov 21, 2012
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bad comparison. The US' opposition for most of the games under Ryan were second and third tier teams. He'd have had more than one loss with the much more competitive schedule that the team has played under Ellis. I don't know how much control the coach has over selecting the opposition, but it can't be a coincidence that the US has played fewer "tomato can" teams since she took over.
     
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  19. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    ???

    ... meaning we won?
     
  20. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    The USWNT has three problems: They play/coach every friendly like it is the most important game. They play far too many friendlies to make money. Friendlies don't matter.

    The last competitive game that Ellis coached she lost. That was against Sweden in the Olympics.

    I don't think Ellis is a good coach at all. However, it seems the "veterans" have had a mutiny every three years. I think sometimes this is actually about the coaching and other times it is about the "veterans" not wanting to lose their salaried positions. Certainly, Ellis got the job because the "veterans" at the time didn't want to get put out to pasture.

    So, I think leaving Ellis and seeing what happens in the World Cup is what has to happen or we will continue to have mutinies every time a coach tries to do anything.
     
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  21. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    YES, YES, YES, YES

    The "veteran's" always think they are entitled to this team. Once they get a foothold, you can't get them out with a crowbar. They band together and threaten.
    IMO, I can't wait for the day when I don't have to look at Lloyd, Rapinoe and a couple others any more on then USWNT.
     
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  22. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    Why? We are not progressing in quality of play while other teams are. There will come a day when our current style will not be enough.

    Where was Australia a few years ago? Now look at them. Other teams that can give us a run most times.... Canada, France, England for starters. We need to get younger, faster and able to create chances that do not equate to run Alex run or dump it to Rapino and pray. Was the same thing when Wambach was able to do it. This is what Ellis brings and I am sick of watching it. We could be a terror if we tried to take our game to a higher level but that will never happen under Ellis. She got a break during the last WC and it gave her new life. We were on our way out when injuries forced her to change what she was doing. No injuries and we would have been out and she'd be gone (hopefully). The point is that what she wanted to do was failing but she kept pushing that square peg into the round hole until forced to to something else. I really hope Ernie Stewart sees it, knows its not good enough, and has a long term vision that looks by meaningless wins during the run up.

    We can do so much better then this
     
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  23. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    I totally agree but its Ellis that keeps them around. Why would she continue to call up Lloyd at this point? She adds nothing anymore. Get somebody young in there. Lloyd saved Ellis's ass 4 years ago but is well past her prime now. It would be best to cut her off a year out then to string her along.
     
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  24. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    Can't put the full blame on Ellis as long as the contracts exist. We still haven't heard a peep about what's in the contracts or which players have them. All I know is it went from "Equal pay for equal play" to backtracking and silence. Not sure what to make of the situation.
     
  25. Smallchief

    Smallchief Member+

    Oct 27, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    All that is fine to say, but who are the youngsters who can step in? Several have been tried and havent been all that good.

    Our offense consists of Morgan and Rapinoe -- and they are still two of the best in the world....Pugh might work out big-time in the future....Dunn also, given a chance at forward, might be outstanding. I don't see much in the way of future offensive superstars beyond those two.
     

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