Players going against the stereotype

Maybe interesting to discuss are the players who go against the stereotype of the country or region. Preferably good players of course ('bad' players would be too easy).

For example, a decent call would be Lucas Leiva for Brazil. In the sense of being boring, without a big presence or expansiveness, not with great flair, reliable, consistent, not visibly athletic - yet nevertheless still a neat player who doesn't kick the ball out of the stadium. While a country as France is perhaps famous for their top class 'water carriers', Brazil isn't.

A bad call for Brazil would be Ronaldinho or even Roberto Carlos and David Luiz. Good call for Germany would be Mehmet Scholl (someone like Ozil already less so), a poor call Lothar Matthaus or Schweinsteiger.


A good call, but not the best, for 'Holland' is possibly Dirk Kuijt

https://www.football365.com/news/is-dirk-kuyt-the-best-stereotype-busting-footballer


A bad call would be Clarence Seedorf (from the FFT 101 players issue)

Enjoy!

 

Yes, this is a very good one.

 

Israel: Yossi Benayoun, in demeanor and appaerance or presentation. In how he presented himself.

For football style it is hard to say, in part because they aren't a prominent football country. While they are so damn smart in other walks of life...

 

What's a good one for Italy? Chiellini or Barzagli at a stretch?

 

Of course Hueng Min Son is also a stereotype busting footballer, for reasons said here:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/30/sports/champions-league-final-tottenham-son-heung-min.html

He has a terrific record against Juventus (two goals against them in 2001-02 for Inter almost delivered the title, losing it in a game where he didn't play) in a variety of roles and also some other big teams but it's fair to say he hasn't a marquee game. That's maybe something going against the usual stereotype...

 

You mean both Italy and Netherlands I think? Yes I agree.

For Netherlands it is really damaging that 'every' (so to speak) promising underage forward who can kick a ball 10 meters straight goes immediately abroad... and they aren't really prioritized there even if they are really good... Example: the sparring partner of Trent Alexander-Arnold was a certain Adekanye. He was seen as - Mane and Salah aside - the sternest test for Arnold and used to make him defensively better. But guys as Arnold and Foden are meant to be fast tracked for the first team while say your average Swiss footballer is not.

Evidently not every 'talent' will develop into a starting forward for a top 15 side in the world, some will fall by the wayside anyway, but overall it is a very damaging process. The same happens now with Belgium, even with them having decent/good/great under-17 teams from time to time (still).

 

Better elaborated here:
https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/making-dutch-academies-epl-raid-proof.2031334/page-4#post-37500486

But yes, this goes against the stereotype... To an extent the same was true a few years back for Brazil with Thiago Silva et al. at their pomp. Not so many class forwards back then (for Brazil standards) but world class defenders and defensive midfielder.

 

Javi Martinez for Spain. Without/before his injuries arguably a top level player. Except for his on-field character he goes in many respects against the stereotypical Spanish midfielder. Maybe/arguably less the case if he was playing 30-40 years ago.

Giroud for France, maybe. I feel France is now mostly associated with fast, pacey and reasonably skillful attackers (Henry, Mbappe but also 'lesser Gods' as Anelka, Cisse, Govou), this is done at least in various books, like the Cox and Feildsend books. But Giroud is none of that and has nevertheless more national team goals than anyone except Henry.

Carlo Ancelotti in his 2016 and 2010 books

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2016:
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The players that others refer to as the foot soldiers, the workhorses or the ‘water carriers’ – they are the ones to whom I’m closest. This kind of player has the character I value the most, because when I played, I had more or less the same skill, the same ability as they have.
The foot soldiers are the players who give their heart for the team – every time, in every game and training session – so I don’t need to spend a lot of time with these kind of players. They are the low-maintenance team members who allow you the time to spend on the high-maintenance ones. They self-motivate 100 per cent of the time.
I remember all these players as much as the superstars, because without them there are no superstars. It’s a cliché, but it really is a team game. At Reggiana, for example, the hardest worker in midfield was Leonardo Calucci, while at Parma I had Roberto Sensini. With Juventus it was Antonio Conte or Edgar Davids, who had a lot of personality. These were players who were also stars, but they had a soldier’s mentality, and sometimes it was easy to forget their talent and needs.
The first time I met Davids I told him, ‘I’m happy to be your manager because you are fantastic. You are strong and aggressive – you are always giving 100 per cent.’ He looked at me and said, ‘I am also a talented football player.’ I had made the classic mistake of assuming that great players do not work hard. These players are sometimes not recognized by the fans and the owners, but they are by those who lead them.
At Chelsea the soldiers were Branislav Ivanović and John Terry, at Paris Saint-Germain it was Alex and at Madrid the soldier was, in my last year, Toni Kroos. I had Gennaro Gattuso at Milan and I also had Clarence Seedorf. People do not see him as a soldier but he is very strong.
Seedorf is a player that you have to delegate things to. You have to tell him, ‘Take care of this,’ and he will do it, but if you are not specific he has such a strong personality that he will want to do everything. The key was to move him to where I thought he would have most value, and I had to convince him of that.
When he arrived at Milan in 2002 Seedorf fought a lot with his teammates. He’s such a strong character that he was behaving like he was in charge of the other players. Eventually, they said to him, ‘You are not the manager – you don’t have to talk like this.’ The reality was that Seedorf could be the soldier and the leader, but Paolo Maldini was the leader in the dressing room, so we had to create a balance to get the best from Seedorf. What he was doing was not intended to be bad – he was just overexcited and passionate about how to play. He had interesting ideas but he was too forceful when explaining them to the others. We had to find the way in between. I told Seedorf that he had to be more polite and patient when explaining certain things and to the others I said that they had to understand he had my confidence in what he was doing. I would say to Seedorf, ‘This is a good idea, but a bad way to convince people. We have to educate the other players more slowly.’
Seedorf is one of those players I always want in my team. Ultimately, this kind of player is a reference point to his teammates. Leaders are chosen by the group, not the manager or the president, and, in the end, Seedorf was a leader. He learned to tone things down and the players wanted his personality and his confidence in the group.

2010:
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When Clarence Seedorf first joined AC Milan, he would pick fights with everyone. It was one quarrel after another with his teammates, especially during the first year. Clarence likes to talk a lot, and he likes to talk about soccer. At first, since he was a new player, this habit of talking freely wasn't particularly welcome. He was considered a know-it-all, an egotist - somebody who would tell you how to do it better. Kaladze and Rui Costa couldn't stand him. Just days after he arrived at Milanello, Seedorf already wanted to tell Rui Costa how to take the field and how to play. No one wanted to acknowledge his leadership because he was a new recruit. Over time, though, things improved. Because, in reality, Clarence is a leader[Ancelotti's emphasis]. He rallies the team in the locker room.