Just making sure mostly due to the fact I've seen a ton of unorganized euro teams with bad/naive tactics especially in the champions lg. Plus I think the physical preparation in Brazil is far better than Europe. guess he's heading to the forgotten about category.
IIRC, you yourself said, at one point, that Costa had more talent than Willian but he had failed to become a better player due to inconsistencies in his game, as well as a bit of a lazy streak? Now, obviously I don't think its nearly to the extent that Costa says it is, but maybe Guardiola was able to coax out some of that potential, and re-energize Costa to develop his game a bit more. That's not a slight on Lucescu, but rather perhaps a testament to Guardiola.
Ofcource. Costa could be more talented than them all Shakhtar brazilians tbh. And now he got another spark. And this time he's mature enough to keep it going (and, if that so, is definitely Lucescu's work and patience for a big extent), or so I think. Guardiola himself is quite manager, but whole new challenge at new, elite club/country + NT finally acknowleging him after years of being incompetent dummies give him that boost.
Is it really that unthinkable though? No disrespect to Lucescu work but Costa is surrounded by better players day in and day out, training with them everyday, playing more competitive games under world class coach.
He was playing just little less than 6 month there and he was shining from the day 1. Lucescu is more experienced and better at developing talents, brought more world-class players to the table, all those Pirlos and a number of current Brazil roster. While Guardiola is absolutely world class coach, he's not better at working with younger talents, he rather uses developed ones such as Costa. And those things he got in Shakhtar. After us they always do well in other physical demanding leagues such as Germany, England, Italy. And they were different players when they just came from Brazil, having just skill and talent (along with huge shortages in teamplay/defensive department), which is great, but not enough to just came to Bayern and play there from day 1. The point is likes of Mengão86 should be thankfull for Shakhtar instead of being bitter and scavenging for any ideas, no matter how absurd they are, to justify their stereotypes.
I mostly agree. But, to play devil's advocate, the problem, from Mengao's pro-Brazil-NT perspective, is that when Brazillians go to Shakhtar, it can sometimes be difficult to gauge how good they are compared to players from other top leagues. You yourself said that Willian had a really good attribute and ability to dribble players and take them on and showcased that in the Ukraine, but that you were somewhat disappointed in how that translated to the EPL. Luiz Adriano was a fairly decent piece and goalscorer in the Ukraine, scoring at a clip of roughly a goal for every two appearances IIRC. But when he went to AC Milan, a team that plays in a Serie A where 38-year-old Luca Toni can score in bunches, the results are currently disappointing from what I hear. Not to mention that Bernard was considered a hot Brazillian prospect only to go to Shakhtar and disappear mostly, doesn't really endear Shakhtar to someone like Mengao either. So, for every Costa who works precisely as advertised, there are Willians or Adrianos who don't quite live up to expectations, or a Bernard who basically falls off the map. From the perspective of the Brazillian NT, this could just be seen as muddling things up for their purposes when deciding who to call up. Is Texeira the next Adriano who doesn't necessarily translate to a different stage, or a hidden gem like Costa? They won't really know unless they call him up and give him an extended run. Unlike known prospects who have worked in more high-profile European leagues like Alves or Thiago SIlva or David Luiz, where they know a lot more about how they translate to different levels.
The issue is throughout the years many promising talents go the Eastern Europe route and for the most part you never hear from them again. Also, with that move they virtually have banned themselves from the NT as they are rarely called up. The unorthodox coach that do take a chance and calls them up isn't repayed cause the performance isn't very good majority of the time with Elano being the only exception I believe.
It's a funny thing that Elano was performing unsatifsyingly bad (much more worse than Jadson who were ignored by NT in his best 07-08 years andI thought were done and exausted as player by 2010, but no, he's a highlight of Brasileirao now) at ukrainian league, coming out of bench mostly and playing less games in 3 years at Shakhtar than in 2 years at Manchester City, becoming a player for Brazil for years. Can we just assume his skill didn't translate to more demanding Shakhtar? That's not the only example. Bernard is also coming through this (he still can't outdribble past defenders in Ukraine). Does that point works in opposite direction too, I just wonder? Will reply more detailed in awhile. Irony aside, ofcource I see your point, I just hope that brazilians here will also see more than one angle.
Yes, the problem is that the manager has to deal with the 'Shakhtar quota' criticism from fans/media and then hope the player does well. Brazil's recent fiasco didn't do any good to players from 'alternative' leagues, like Ukraine, Russia, China, and Mideastern ones. So Dunga has become more cautious and tends to focus more on top league (and Brazil-based) players as in theory they are more reliable rather than gambling on players that play in so-called less competitive leagues (according to Dunga's/CBF's/Brazilian press opinions). Shakhtar players are also rarely so great as to be a must to call up them, Alex Teixeira is doing great for example but would calling him up really make any significant difference for the national team? In the end, calling them up or not barely affects results, so managers just choose the easy option (not call up them) and avoid any potential criticism.
Yeah, it's not like Pep brought along Sergio Busquets, Pique, Thiago and Pedro along in his time at Barca. Coman is playing significantly better now than he ever did at Juve. He isn't good with young talents. Bernard had trouble adapting to life in Ukraine from the get go. He had a falling out with Lusecu. He had many problems that contributed to his struggles. I really find it hard to believe that the quality of Ukrainian defenders is the reason why he isn't doing well. Elano never did anything at any club after he left Shakhtar. Dunga found a nice utility role for him on the NT and he was able to perform reasonably well and that was it. Jadson didn't do much since returning to Brazil until this season. He got to play with the top coach currently in Brazil and in the best team. There are many more examples of players who did not make any impact in Brazil that went on to make a career in Ukraine. Eduardo da Silva already found new life after failing to seize every opportunity to earn a starting role at my club and now he's scoring goals in Ukraine. Marlos, who was simply a squad player at SPFC, is the midfield maestro at Shakhtar. Junior Moraes, who failed at every location in Brazil, made his career in Ukraine and is now leading the line at 2nd place Kiev. These examples far outweigh what you can find for the flip side.
I think Bernard did underestimate the Ukrainian league but he also regretted moving them as he really wanted to play in a top league, and that lead to him lose motivation and become lazy. I think he would well in any top league anyway though, although he is already doing better in Ukraine.
Jonas Gonçalves leads the Portuguese Primeira Liga with 18 goals in 17 games with Benfica. Benfica also still in the Champions League aswell. Leo Botanini at Estoril on loan from Cruzeiro has 11 goals in 17 games. Rafael Martins of Moreirense on loan from Levante CF has 8 goals. Dyego Souza has 7 goals for Maritimo All 4 in the top goalscorers list. Jonas 1st Leo 5th Martins 8th Souza 10th
Ronaldinho compara Firmino a Iniesta, Ozil e David Silva: 'Tem a mesma classe'; VEJA: https://t.co/ZqeaPMglss pic.twitter.com/m47eOoLH37— ESPN Brasil (@ESPNBrasil) January 29, 2016
Firmino é eleito o melhor do mês de janeiro no Inglês em votação popular https://t.co/I2isC2rYt9 pic.twitter.com/DAOY7MQlsV— ge (@geglobo) March 3, 2016
Another Liga Sagres success story....Mattheus is starting to tear it up for Estoril. He scored twice this weekend, and has 4 goals in the his last 4 games. and another "Liga Sagres" success story, but this one actually taking place in Ligue 1....Vagner Love catching fire and scoring vs PSG in a win...
I'm very surprised about Vagner but then again its easy to forget he is still only 31. Apparently he came to Monaco unfit but got himself together and has been doing well.
#CentralFOXBrasil Lembra do Marlos? Um dos principais clubes da Europa está disposto a pagar uma nota por ele https://t.co/xjA1w7B0UX— SportsCenter Brasil (@SportsCenterBR) May 6, 2016 Save the money, @MatthausSammer
He's progressing very fast at the moment, maybe the best Shakhtar player of last 6 months. Great short dribbler and assistant with decent shot. Doing not any less than D. Costa at the same position. But the guy has many limitations, like fairly low top speed and not-so-great defensive work and he's nowhere near of DC level of talent.
I'll await more examples from you other than the ones you list above. In addition to the names I listed above: Matheus, Dnipro: Was among the leaders in scoring two seasons ago and is a key player at Dnipro. He couldn't establish a career in Brazil and wasn't very good for Braga in Portugal. Anderson Pico, Flamengo: Was the center of many jokes the last season for Flamengo, but is in good form for Dnipro, even scoring some ridiculous goals... Cleiton Xavier, Metalist: He was among the top goal scorers last season until he left in the middle of the year for Palmeiras. He has yet to breakthrough the starting lineup since at Palmeiras and finds himself buried in the depth chart. Cristaldo, Metalist: Was scoring goals regularly while at Metalist. Since arriving at Palmeiras, he's been a mere reserve. Known more for his friendly personality around Brazilians rather than his ability on the pitch. His highest goal totals were in Ukraine. He never scored as many goals in Brazil or Argentina. Danilo Silva, Dynamo: An important starter on Dynamo. While at Inter, he was an average CB that rotated in and out of the starting lineup with Bolivar and Indio.