Player Eligibility and Switching National Teams: Case Studies & General Discussion

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Nico Limmat, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Country:
    Chile
    Qualifiers for a youth WC, like the U20 WC, doesn't cap-tie anyone to its team (only the main tournament might do so).

    In any case, cap-tie rules regarding elegibility of nationalized players by 2001, were diferent to those that exist nowdays.
     
  2. Sebsasour

    Sebsasour Member+

    May 26, 2012
    Albuquerque NM
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Country:
    United States

    Incorrect. Any official youth competition will preliminary cap tie someone, which means they can still file a one time switch later on, but only for a country that they were eligible for at the time of being tied. Chaco Jimenez was not yet a Mexican Citizen when he played those youth games for Argentina, which is what caused the dispute.

    Whether or not it's the final tournament or a qualifier is irrelevant. Adama Traore represented Ivory Coast in some qualifiers for the 2007 U20 World Cup. When he announced that he wanted to switch to Australia a few years later (a country that he'd just gained citizenship for), FIFA told him no. He did not play any U20 World Cup games for Ivory Coast, because they did not qualify for it.
     
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  3. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    #578 HomietheClown, Oct 26, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
    Atletico Nacional Keeper Franco Armani wants to play for Colomba.
    He truly wants to play for Argentina but he is not even on their radar despite being arguably the best Keeper in Colombia, and one of the best keepers in South America (He was brilliant for Nacional in the Copa Libertadores Championship run in 2016)

    Something to keep an eye on. It seems like he is close to finalizing his citizenship and he is married to a Colombian, but I am not sure how close he is with the paper work. He has been living in Colombia for about 7 years now so no Bolivian situation should occur. :p

    I believe Colombia has not played a foreign born player since the 1980's so this is kind of a big deal.
     
  4. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    HomietheClown repped this.
  5. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Interesting article Blondo.
    This is what i find the most interesting:
    "He added that Fifa may also look into a compensation scheme in cases where a player goes through the training system of one country and represents it a youth level before switching to another."

    I wonder if they would tax a federation a certain amount of money and distribute it to the federation that trains them.

    That may discourage some poorer feds with little resources from naturalizing citizens
     
  6. Chicago76

    Chicago76 Member+

    Jun 9, 2002
    There's that problem, but there's a problem on the other side as well:

    Scenario A: A John Barnes scenario where the player is born in one country to parents of that country. He decides to stay behind to utilize the training infrastructure of a bigger country when his parents return. What if Barnes decided he wanted to rep Jamaica instead? The country of his citizenship/birth would need to compensate the England FA.

    Scenario B: An Aspire Academy type situation, except with the primary goal of the institution being more overt in terms of IDing talent elsewhere, importing it at a young age with a long eye toward these guys filling Sr NT roles. Parents come along for the ride on work visas. Poach 50 prodigious talents by birth year, put them through the system. Many will go through the youth NT ranks, but presumably many of them will wash out before the Sr team. The FAs of these players' births would need to pay to retain their services.
     
  7. sevenace

    sevenace New Member

    Oct 4, 2017
    I can't agree with loosening representation laws. You play for one country and one country only. It's not like you can't love a place because you represent another. One match or not, player locking should remain the way it is and the period for it not be extended.
     
  8. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    #583 Nico Limmat, Oct 27, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
    If you look back within this thread I have been asking for some kind of compensation for the association that loses a player. The figure should ideally be tied to the amount of time spent within the program. Switzerland's lose-to-gain ratio must be something like 30:1 by now. Maybe more. Would be nice to get a little something back for all the players that have switched. To prevent a rich vs. poor association conflict with direct payments from one party to another FIFA should create a common pool for these player development compensations.

    And I still think a "cooling off" period of 6-12 months would make sense where a switching player has to wait a bit before representing his new association. That would prevent last minute lobbying for a specific tournament.
     
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  9. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    @Nico Limmat ... I doubt the compensation fees will be high, if they're indeed introduced, and it isn't unlikely these fees will only act as a deterrent to go after the lesser talents (that probably can't get into the NT of the country where they were born, raised, received their football education, etc. and that don't generate as much drama as transfer sagas do at club level). Some FAs, like Morocco and Turkey, have gone as far as to keep permanent offices in W.Europe to go after any talent with even the weakest of links to their country. A fee won't stop them if a talent is promising enough (who could get on either squad and cause a lot more controversy than a not so talented player) ... e.g. NTs like Morocco or Algeria wouldn't have that many valuable players and I don't expect they'll stop poaching if they have to pay a fee (= Fifa adding a hunting licence of sorts to the rules) ... besides a bit of money isn't that great of a compensation.

    Also, Fifa's rules allow dual nationality players to brazenly put pressure on FAs and NT managers while poachers have no qualms to openly say they like to steal a talent from another country ... that doesn't sound healthy and if Fifa intend to relax the rules I doubt the situation natonal teams are in will get any healthier. To give a recent example: Serbia are looking "to steal" Svilar (maybe to rob Belgium of such a top talent is a better translation but it doesn't sound any better) ... Svilar was born and raised in Belgium, he received his (football) education in Belgium and he came through the Belgian youth teams ... on merit Svilar has a lot more to prove than the others that have a claim to the 3rd string goalie spot on Belgium's Russia2018 squad ... yet Svilar and his dad have very little patience and are trying to put pressure on the Belgian FA (he isn't demanding any respect by forcing the issue). Giving these players even more priveleges than they currently have, especially the power to pressure FAs and NT managers, could lead to more abuse and increase inequality. Let's say Svilar comes good enough to overtake Mignolet but Courtois is still better. The rule change shouldn't allow him to demand to play over Courtois or threaten to switch. If Fifa change the rules I prefer they decrease instead of increase inequality between players with single and dual nationality.
     
  10. leonidas

    leonidas Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2005
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Country:
    Brazil
    Lyanco's rumored second switch from Serbia to Brazil to Italy is pretty pathetic. I feel this type of switching should certainly be restricted. Makes a mockery of national team football for sure.
     
  11. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Wouldn't Lyanco have to wait a while to play for Italy?
     
  12. leonidas

    leonidas Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2005
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Country:
    Brazil
    Don't think so. He has an Italian passport already. His parents have said he is talking to the FIGC already. Seems dumb because he has a chance to play for Brazil down the road.
     
  13. rooboy91

    rooboy91 Member

    Apr 25, 2007
    Perth, Australia
    Club:
    Perth Glory
    Country:
    Australia
    Hasn't he used up his one allowed switch by moving from Serbia to Brazil?
     
  14. leonidas

    leonidas Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2005
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Country:
    Brazil
    I don't think the one time switch applies to youth teams?
     
  15. rooboy91

    rooboy91 Member

    Apr 25, 2007
    Perth, Australia
    Club:
    Perth Glory
    Country:
    Australia
    From the FIFA statutes


    He's played competitive youth football for both Serbia and Brazil. Without some very creative interpretation of the rules, he's not eligible for Italy.
     
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  16. leonidas

    leonidas Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2005
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Country:
    Brazil
    Still don't think the statute is entirely clear when it comes to his situation. Certainly arguments for and against. He is precluded from playing for Serbia. He has always been eligible for Italian citizenship, but I don't think he acquired it until moving to Italy.

    It's kind of like Thiago Motta, where he played an official senior competition, but in another confederation and as part of a Brazil U23 team. It was a weird circumstance where u could interpret the law in many ways. Brazil could've argued more to block Italy, but it just didn't seem worth Brazil's while.

    I mean here, Brazil may as well try to block Italy as Lyanco is probably national team worthy down the line and he already committed, they thought. Plus, Lyanco is making a mockery of what it means to play for a national team. Maybe ban him from all national teams lol.
     
  17. Athlone

    Athlone Member

    Feb 2, 2013
    Country:
    Jamaica
    I'm fine with the whole compensation idea so long as the fees are small, somewhat proportionate to the loss (ex: the player being compensated for isn't just a guy that the losing nation was never really going to cap regularly anyway), and not actually paid out by the smaller nations themselves.

    As for the cooling off period, I like that idea and would actually go further with it. I'd like to see FIFA relax their rules so as to allow even a veteran player who had many caps with one nation to switch to another with the following conditions:

    1. He was eligible to represent this other nation at the time he made his debut (competitive or non-competitive, youth or senior) for his first
    2. He must wait a minimum of 4 calendar years after his final cap for his first nations before he can switch to the second (this is the "cooling off period" - so Player B who is eligible for both Haiti and France via birth/ancestry can represent France, end his France career at 28, and file to represent Haiti at age 32)
    3. The switch cannot be made if a one-time switch has already occurred earlier in that player's career (ex: player A one-time switches from Iceland to the USA at age 20, has longish career, no more USA caps after age 27, decides at 32 he wants to try and represent Iceland again - this would be prohibited)

    Concurrent with this, I would follow along with FIFA's idea to increase the naturalization period by a small amount (say 6 years required residency instead of 5) and increase the room for a one-time switch to take place (allowing it after two to three competitive caps as opposed to now where any more than 0 competitive caps will prevent it).
     
  18. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    A fun question that I don't think anyone will get FIFA to answer: did Brazil play in the 2003 Gold Cup as a guest team or as a full-blown participant? If it's the latter, Motta should never have been allowed to switch...if it's the former, Brazil shouldn't have gotten the confederation championship multiplier on the FIFA ranking points won from those games, but the record still shows that they did.
     
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  19. leonidas

    leonidas Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2005
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Country:
    Brazil
    Yeah, I mean honestly the FIGC and FIFA really bent the rules for Motta. Brazil didn't really care enough to fight it.
     
  20. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Country:
    United States
    You can assume that any team playing in a confederation other than their own that the team is a guest. They generally aren't allowed to call in players over the objection of the clubs. Not sure we ever got a straight answer on the Copa America Centenario for CONCACAF teams, but it was on the FIFA calendar for all the teams involved.
     
  21. dsichiva

    dsichiva Member

    Nov 15, 2013
    Club:
    Norwich City FC
    I just read that Adnan Januzaj is recalled to the Belgium national team for the friendlies agains Mexico and Japan:

    http://www.espnfc.com/belgium/story...nuzaj-radja-nainggolan-for-mexico-japan-games

    Does this mean he will be permanently cap-tied to Belgium? Or, since these are friendlies, he still have the chance to switch allegiance to Kosovo? Since his last official match with Belgium was before FIFA admitted Kosovo, I am guessing that he still retain the chance to switch allegiances until he plays an official match with Belgium (next one: the World Cup).
     
  22. nooshcat

    nooshcat Member

    Jan 3, 2017
    Let's name naturalized players in the 2018 WC.

    Pione Sisto (Uganda -> Denmark)
     

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