Player Eligibility and Switching National Teams: Case Studies & General Discussion

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Nico Limmat, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. Boandlkramer

    Boandlkramer Member+

    Apr 9, 2009
    Samma Weltmeister!
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Country:
    Germany
    That's great. But he has t retracted that.

    My kids are military Brats, dual citizens born and raised in both the US and Germany. They stopped playing when we moved back to the US once they figured out the pay to play racket that it is.

    None the less, they saw his comments as a personal affront to them and the circumstances of how they were born in Germany.

    We Won't watch a single match with Arena as coach.
     
  2. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Meh.

    I don't think he has to retract anything. The key word for me in one of the quotes is "all".
    If "all" the players on the USA team are born in other countries it is his opinion that progress is not being made. IT is his right to believe that.

    But he is not an idiot. He will play the best player he thinks best fits within his system no matter where they were born.
     
  3. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Country:
    Bolivia
    One of the aspects that Klinsmann was careless about was establishing the locker room leaders. He should have known better. When you have as many players raised abroad as he had in his tenure then you have to be careful to keep the national team mentality.

    Arena has never been a guy to deny dual nationals opportunities. 8 years as an NT coach demonstrate that. But he will never lose sight of the locker room either. At a certain point he will make decisions that will keep his guys centered mentally.

    Truthfully, it's really not so much an issue of divided allegiance but rather comradery. Guys like Carter-Vickers, Zelalem, etc. are not really an issue because they have been integrated for a while in the YNTs. Neither are recent citizens like Dwyer or Nagbe because they are familiar from MLS play.
     
  4. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    And now he has been dropped from the Gold Cup roster due to an injury. Terrific start! ;)

    I agree Israel appears to have dropped the ball in securing his services but there are more graceful ways to switch allegiances without putting down your former FA. As for this quote:

    If you feel that connected then surely you would have found a way to set foot on US soil in two decades. I'm going to file this one under opportunistic switch - along the lines of Aron Johannsson.
     
  5. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    As for the new CONCACAF representation rules regarding its full members that aren't FIFA members - I for one welcome it. I am generally not in favor of the status these six associations enjoy. As we established here no other confederation has full members that aren't simultaneously FIFA members.
     
  6. dsichiva

    dsichiva Member

    Nov 15, 2013
    Club:
    Norwich City FC
    Since French Guiana is not a FIFA member, CONCACAF cannot apply a FIFA rule regarding eligibility of players playing for this associate member, just as Catalonia football team can field Catalonian players that already played for Spain (e.g. Xavi, Fabregas, Pique). If CONCACAF accepts a team like French Guiana in a continental tournament, they are entitled to select players with a reasonable allegiance, even those with caps with France, since these Gold Cup matches are glorified friendlies for those "associated members", (i.e. matches that are not registered for the FIFA rankings procedure)
    French Guiana could test this at the CAS, using the "Angloma precedent".
     
  7. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Country:
    United States
    #557 BostonRed, Jul 11, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
    French Guiana goes with the automatic forfeit by starting Malouda:


    Lalas says it's automatically referred to the Disciplinary Committee rather than waiting for a protest (though that may not be the way it actually happens).

    Dr. Joe came on and said that protests over eligibility have to be in 48 hours in advance, so it's up to CONCACAF to penalize. He says the team can keep a better score than the automatic 3-0 (4-0 or 5-2, for example).
     
  8. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    French Guiana supporters have a good point when they ask why was he allowed to play in the Caribbean Cup and not the Gold Cup?
    Also, why weren't they clear with the rules initially and only came out a day before the competition to say no?

    Also, I don't know the validity of this argument but supporters claim that FIFA did not really recognize French Guiana until 2013. Malouda's Final match for France was in 2012.
    Wouldn't it be similar to players who played for Yugoslavia and then decided to play for Croatia once their FA was formed?

    It is all just a big mess.
     
  9. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Country:
    United States
    French Guiana exists in kind of a nether-world. Whenever they play in a tournament, the organizers have to create rules for eligibility since they aren't subject to FIFA rules (and aren't able to take advantage of a one-time switch, for example). It sounds like the CFU, which runs the Caribbean Cup, used different eligibility rules than the Gold Cup. The old rule was 5 years after the last cap.

    The Gold Cup rules were issued on March 1st, 2017, so the competitors had plenty of time to review them prior to the tournament. French Guiana qualified for the Gold Cup on November 9th. Current regulations: http://www.concacaf.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/170301_GC-Regulations-Final_EN.pdf

    It's certainly similar to the Yugoslavia (or even Kosovo) case, but since they aren't a member of FIFA, there's no one to make that ruling. It's CONCACAF's tournament, so they get to make the rules on eligibility. If French Guiana wants to argue that 2013 is the magic creation date for football, then no other cap-tied players who played after 2013 can participate for FG going forward. I think they would prefer to go back to the old 5 year rule.
     
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  10. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Country:
    United States
    Statement from the French Guiana coach:
     
  11. rooboy91

    rooboy91 Member

    Apr 25, 2007
    Perth, Australia
    Club:
    Perth Glory
    Country:
    Australia
    CAF/Zanzibar?

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39305382
     
  12. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Country:
    United States
    Nico Limmat repped this.
  13. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
  14. dsichiva

    dsichiva Member

    Nov 15, 2013
    Club:
    Norwich City FC
    A ruling made in the middle of the night (2.54am ET)? Why two matches instead of the whole tournament? How could the player be able to serve the suspension if is supposed to be ineligible to play in the first place?

    French Guiana and Martinique are part of France, meaning that CONCACAF is practically allowing the French Football Federation to enter not one, but 2 squads of French players. Ruling that such squads can not use players of such regions because they played for the French national team.... well, if French Guiana, along with the FFF take this issue to TAS/CAS, it could become a legal mess. Even more as he was allowed to play in the Caribbean cup, a Concacaf sanctioned tournament.

    Maybe the legal tangle could provide more excitement than this Gold cup edition :)
     
  15. rooboy91

    rooboy91 Member

    Apr 25, 2007
    Perth, Australia
    Club:
    Perth Glory
    Country:
    Australia
    Can he suspended from games he's not eligible for?
     
  16. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    IT is weird but yes he can be.
    He was suspended from being on the bench and in the Stadium (Although he did find a way into the Stadium from what I saw on television.)
     
  17. Sudžuka

    Sudžuka Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 27, 2013
  18. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    As I said in another thread Argentine media is reporting that the Court of Arbitration for Sport has ruled in favor of Bolivia.
    So the World Cup qualifying points taken away from them initially for fielding an ineligible player will be given back to them allegedly.
     
  19. JLSA

    JLSA Member

    Nov 11, 2003
    Nothing on their website about a ruling. But.

    So it would make sense that the could have happened.

    J
     
  20. JLSA

    JLSA Member

    Nov 11, 2003
    Note that according to this

    http://remezcla.com/sports/chile-peru-bolivia-world-cup/

    Bolivia won't get the points back - but Chile and Peru will lose the points they got.

    J
     
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  21. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Country:
    Chile
    Argentine media, has been saying it, since the begining.
    At first, they said that FIFA wasn´t going to give the points to both Chile and Peru. But once FIFA ruled it, as it did, they started saying that it would be the CAS whom would act as how they want to believe it.

    Truth is, that only once the CAS makes their official statement, it will be known what will happen to those points.

    Even the bolivian FA officials, whom presented the claim to the CAS, have denied the rumours about the filtration of news regarding the case from the CAS.

    http://beta.goal.com/es-ar/noticias...-fallo-del-tas-son/1pyj23s74a67q1jza7qxaa0wa5
     
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  22. thewitness

    thewitness Member

    Jul 10, 2013
    Club:
    Derby County FC
    Country:
    Australia
    AFC has the Northern Mariana Islands as an associate member. OFC has Niue, Tuvalu and Kiribati.
     
  23. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    Associate being the key word. I was talking about full members.
     
  24. dsichiva

    dsichiva Member

    Nov 15, 2013
    Club:
    Norwich City FC
    TAS-CAS has finally spoken:

    http://www.tas-cas.org/en/general-i...iled-by-the-bolivian-football-federation.html

    Confirmation that:
    1) any player without any previous link to any association he wants to represent, has to comply with the five years continous period of playing in that given association, before becoming eligible, and

    2) that at whatever moment, inside a two year period after the event, FIFA could start an investigation and declare a forfeit in any official international match where an ineligible player takes part.

    Now, when FIFA could initiate this ex officio disciplinary proceedings, remains a mistery. People in the Panamian FA wonder what they should have done to make FIFA take an interest in the eligibility of Christian Gimenez
     
  25. Sebsasour

    Sebsasour Member+

    May 26, 2012
    Albuquerque NM
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Country:
    United States
    Wasn't Chaco eligible? It was 4 years ago so forgive me if I'm wrong, but I recall reading that the games he played for Argentina's U20 team were part of the qualifying tournament for the 2001 World Cup. However, Argentina was hosting the World Cup that year, so FIFA just considered those games to count as friendlies.

    I imagine the FMF got some kind of assurance beforehand
     

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