Player Eligibility and Switching National Teams: Case Studies & General Discussion

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Nico Limmat, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    I'm not saying a World Cup without Messi can't be good. I'm not saying I want FIFA to help Argentina cheat. I'm not saying this because I'm a Messi fan, but calling him a "household name" is an understatement. I would think way more people (including people who aren't soccer fans) around the world could tell you the national team and club for Messi than for players you named like Alaba and Yarmolenko. What player was the best at the start of any World Cup his team didn't qualify for, and was that player as good then as Messi is now?
     
  2. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    I'm guessing you mean someone like di Stéfano? ... he also gets this thread back on topic (played with three different national teams during his career).

    PS George Best and George Weah to complete a top 3 of greats that never played at the World Cup ... actually add Cruijff for the 1978 World Cup ... Kidnappers made Cruyff miss World Cup
     
  3. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Country:
    Chile
    #503 Rickdog, Nov 3, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2016
    In the days of di Stefano, there wasn't any elegibility or cap-tied rule on place, and every player could play for whichever NT, they wanted to play for.

    Back then, FIFA had no problems with the existence of "football" mercenaries, whom would play for whomever paid them more. There are many cases of players, which played for diferent NT's. There are some who even played finals at WC's with 2 diferent teams along their careers.

    The cap-tied rule only appeared during the late 60's
    .
    .
    Btw, you must scrap Cruyff from that list as he was the Netherland's front man during 1974, so he did get to play a WC.,
     
  4. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    He said "at the start of any World Cup" ... that includes Cruijff for the 1978 World Cup ... di Stefano (and the others) even takes it to another level (never featured instead of missing out on any World Cup) ... besides Messi has already been to 3 WCs (e.g. Cruijff only made it to the one in 1974, Eusebio 1966, etc.).

    IIRC di Stefano's case motivated FIFA to crack down on that sort of thing ... once people gained more mobility the risk that "football mercenaries" made a mockery of national teams forced FIFA to act and introduce rules ... later stricter rules were introduced to close loopholes.
     
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  5. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    His senior national team career has been unmemorable to say the least. No big moments, no big games and MVP awards that raised multiple eyebrows. Argentina is where it is partly because of Messi overreliance and underutilisation. If they can't qualify as one of 5 in a 10 team confed, where two teams don't really count (Venezuela and Bolivia), then you have no explanation.
     
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  6. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Country:
    Bolivia
  7. dsichiva

    dsichiva Member

    Nov 15, 2013
    Club:
    Norwich City FC
    According to this:
    http://www.lanacion.cl/noticias/dep...chile-para-sancionar-a/2016-11-10/145802.html
    it seems that FIFA don't require any complaint at all to start an investigation regarding ineligible players. Its an ex officio procedure the moment they get any info regarding this kind of situation. So the 24 hours deadline does not apply to this
    But if that is the case, How come FIFA did not apply these criteria and start such investigation when Panama made an inquiry about Chaco Gimenez? and why FIFA said that after the 24 deadline they could not answer such inquiry of Panama?
    Same offense, different treatments and outcomes
     
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  8. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Country:
    Bolivia
    Also, why haven't they taken away points for Damian Lizio's participation for Bolivia against Venezuela?

    This is a mess. By doing this now countries can complain why the heck FIFA doesn't do an ex-officio for a whole bunch of other situations. Unless they do so they are open to being accused of favoritism or even bribery.
     
  9. rooboy91

    rooboy91 Member

    Apr 25, 2007
    Perth, Australia
    Club:
    Perth Glory
    Country:
    Australia
    When it's OFC or AFC, they usually wait for a complaint.
     
  10. Hideo

    Hideo Member

    Apr 30, 2010
    Newcastle upon Tyne
    Country:
    England
  11. Juniorcbr

    Juniorcbr New Member

    Oct 11, 2013
    Düsseldorf, Germany
    Country:
    Poland
    In regards to the one time nationality switch, my understanding is that a player who has appeared in youth international matches for two nations that he is fully eligible for, can continue to switch his sporting nationality whenever he pleases between those two as he has not participated in an official competition at “A” international level. Is that correct, or is it that once a player plays for a youth team of the "second" nation, he used his one time sporting nationality switch, and is stuck with that second nation for good.
     
  12. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    A youth player that has played an official youth match (i.e. not friendly) has to file a one-time switch, even if he is just joining another youth setup. After that there is no return. Example:

    U-16 Country A (Friendly)
    U-16 Country B (Friendly)
    U-17 Country A (Friendly)
    U-17 Country B (Friendly)
    U-19 Country A (Official Match)
    ******One-Time Switch******
    U-19 Country B (Official Match)
     
  13. Juniorcbr

    Juniorcbr New Member

    Oct 11, 2013
    Düsseldorf, Germany
    Country:
    Poland
    So what if he participated in an official match for youth country A, but only friendlies for youth country B?

    U-19 Country A (Friendly)
    U-19 Country A (Official Match)
    U-20 Country B (Friendly)
    U-21 Country B (Friendly)
    Wants to play for Country A "A" National Team.
     
  14. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Country:
    Chile
    At youth level, there is no such thing as official friendly matches.
    Unofficial fixtures, don't cap-tie any player.
     
  15. Juniorcbr

    Juniorcbr New Member

    Oct 11, 2013
    Düsseldorf, Germany
    Country:
    Poland
    #515 Juniorcbr, Dec 14, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2016
    Agreed, friendly matches do not cap tie a player period, whether youth level or Senior ("A" level). What I wanted to know is what is the specific criteria that could cap tie a player who only played for a national team at the youth level.
     
  16. Juniorcbr

    Juniorcbr New Member

    Oct 11, 2013
    Düsseldorf, Germany
    Country:
    Poland
    An example of what I mean is Milos Degenek. He made multiple appearances for the Australia U-17's, in official youth matches, including during the 2011 FIFA U-17 World Cup. He switched to the Serbian U-19 team and played in at least one official UEFA competition match before he switched once again to the Australian NT for good.
     
  17. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Country:
    Chile
    #517 Rickdog, Dec 14, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2016
    At senior "A" level, even if it is a friendly match, it cap-ties players the same as if it were an official tournament match, as at this specific level, friendly matches can also be official matches (only those at a "B" level or at non FIFA official dates could get considered as unofficial matches).

    If for whatever reason, a player has only played friendly matches at senior level, they need to file special solicitude to FIFA if they want to play for another team. If FIFA decides not to grant them that permission, they simply can't do it, as by then they would be cap-tied to the team to which they played before.

    This issue, is preciselly one of the reasons by which Bolivia lost their qualifier points won a few months back in time, against Peru and Chile, because they played with Nelson Cabrera (born in Paraguay), whom was inellegible to play for them as he had played one friendly "A" level match for Paraguay (about 6 years ago) and never filed the respectful "switch solicitude" to FIFA, to allow him play for a diferent team (at current times, this case is still being appealed by them) . Very likely that if he and the bolivian FA would've done that solicitude before playing with him, after less than a few months from the date they filed that request, FIFA would've granted him it, but the "dopes" at the bolivian FA thought that this was an automatic process and they didn't file anything at all (happens, that this is not the first time they've been playing with unelligible players as this case, so if FIFA decides to dig in a little further on their recent past history, they'll surely find more than one other similar case, which could mean the bolivian FA more fines and punishments).
     
  18. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Country:
    United States
    I don't know the facts of the Cabrera case, but friendlies at the senior level do not cap tie a player to a national team nor do they require a one-time switch. Theoretically, a player can bounce between 2 national teams playing senior friendlies (there aren't many national teams that would put up with this for long).

    FIFA statutes always reference "in an official competition at 'A' international level." That's the key point why, say, AJ DeLaGarza and Tony Tchani were able to play friendlies for the US and switch to other countries without any hassle or FIFA paperwork.
     
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  19. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Country:
    Bolivia
    Young Kekuta Manneh will be called up to the US "January camp".

    http://www.socceramerica.com/article/71656/usmnt-arena-drops-first-hints-about-new-team.html
    This will be an interesting test case. Manneh arrived in the US on a type of scholarship to the Florida Rush, an amateur soccer academy, and was adopted by his host family. The adoption seems to have no ulterior motives beyond Manneh's welfare (he has been an orphan since 10 years old) but FIFA will certainly have some pause with his reasons for first arriving in the US.

    If the waiver does not prosper, Manneh might have some issues qualifying at 23 since he plays for a Canadian team albeit in an American league and residing in American soil (Vancouver is close to the US border).
     
  20. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Country:
    United States
    Why do you say that? The rule refers to residency and he's obviously been resident in the US the entire time.

    Here's the wording from the statutes:

    He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant association.

    Generally, "resident" means the territory of the club (to address off season residency back home), but the wording is very straight forward.
     
  21. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Country:
    Bolivia
    Yes, but FIFA seem to be all over the place as far as interpretation goes.
     
  22. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Country:
    United States
    I don't know how you can mess up "lived continuously for at least 5 years" when that's exactly what he did. We aren't privy to any part of the waiver process, including the rules by which waivers are granted, but this part doesn't seem to be particularly tricky, even if the initial waiver is denied.
     
  23. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Country:
    Chile
    #523 Rickdog, Dec 20, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
    A friendly match at senior level, can be an official match.

    The "official or unofficial" qualification is not restricted to tournaments. At this moment is when FIFA starts talking about "A" level type of matches, where if it is played at this level at an official FIFA match date, it becomes official, and of course it cap-ties players to the teams to which they play for. If for whatever reason a player wants to, afterwards play for another team, once he is cap-tied to another team, he (and the respectful FA) must file in all the propper paperwork to FIFA in order to file the one time switch. (This is the case that affected Cabrera, as he had played for his native Paraguay, in an official "A" level friendly match at an official FIFA match date, in which case he got cap-tied to Paraguay, and therefore he became unelligible to play for other NT's, unless he filed his paperwork to FIFA, which he never did, before ever playing for a diferent team)

    Diferent issue would be when players play a friendly match, not at level "A" and not during an official FIFA match date, in which case, the match would be an unofficial friendly match, in which case it does not cap-tie the players to the teams to which they are playing for.

    Btw, a tournament can also be unofficial, even if it is sanctioned by FIFA by the same principles of above, if it is not played at "A" level, or at an unofficial FIFA match date.(example for this, is the next China cup, to be played during January next year, by 4 NT's).
     
  24. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Country:
    Chile
    Manneh was born in December - 1994, so he turned 18 year old, in December -2012.

    To have 5 years of continuous residency after his 18th birthday, asuming he has always lived in the USA since then, he will become eligible to play for the USA, only after December - 2017 (in which case, he will have missed all the WC qualifiers by then).
     
  25. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Country:
    United States
    I'd love to see your actual references about friendlies cap-tying players.

    According to this article, Cabrera was ruled ineligible because he had only lived in Bolivia for 4 years, not the required 5. His appearance for Paraguay had nothing to do with his ineligibility.

    Cabrera, born in Paraguay, moved to Bolivia four years ago to play for Bolivar.

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-worldcup-bolivia-idUKKBN12W4HD
     
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