Player Eligibility and Switching National Teams: Case Studies & General Discussion

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Nico Limmat, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. dsichiva

    dsichiva Member

    Nov 15, 2013
    Club:
    Norwich City FC
    Ok, that is a vital piece of information. Hope you don't mind sharing the direct link, because uefa web is quite complicated to navigate.

    It only add that info regarding players in youth tournaments is quite difficult to find.
     
  2. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Every UEFA player is searchable by name. Here is his profile page:

    http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/players/player=103892/profile/index.html
     
  3. dsichiva

    dsichiva Member

    Nov 15, 2013
    Club:
    Norwich City FC
    Thanks for the link. With that info, I accept that Toulon Tournament do not appear to be cap-tying for a player.

    Now we know that Sertic played 2 matches in a UEFA sanctioned tournament, the one against Czech Republic, and one against either Denmark or Turkey. Unfortunely, his profile do not provide a detailed relation of the matches where he appeared on the pitch, only the one of his debut.

    So Sertic played those matches in 2006 when he only had a French passport. FIFA decided that Sertic's heritage is not enough, he also needed to be in possession of a Croatian passport before those matches if he wanted to switch allegiances in the future.

    But one thing to take into account, those matches were NOT used as qualifiers for any FIFA final tournament. Since UEFA u17 is an annual competition, only the ones held in odd years serve for the purpose of deciding which european teams go to the U17 world cup. The one in 2006 only served to decide which nation was the best U17 side of that year in Europe

    Same with Gimenez. Even if Argentina was already qualified to the u20 WC as hosts, he participated in a CONMEBOL sanctioned tournament to decide the best U20 team in South America of that cycle (2001), which also doubles as qualifiers for a FIFA final tournament.

    So the main question remains. Why FIFA awarded different elegibility rulings for the same set of facts, i.e., participation in a confederation sanctioned youth tournament without being in possession of another passport?

    Maybe Croatia could ask to FIFA to reconsider Sertic elegibility using Gimenez antecedent :)
     
  4. Sifrit

    Sifrit Member

    Mar 15, 2014
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Yunus Malli (Mainz 05) has switched to Turkey after playing for Germany's U17, U18, U19, U20 and U21 teams. He won the UEFA U17 Euro in 2009 and also played in this summer's U21 Euro.
     
  5. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think FIFA takes that into consideration. If a confederation has an age-eligible competition that doesn't lead to a FIFA tournament, it still counts. I have never seen a good list of which competitions (and qualifiers that lead to competitions) count, but the general principle is that a confederation has a true youth tournament that follows the rules of a tournament (vs. friendlies) and every fed is eligible to enter, it's a competition.
     
  6. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I'd qualify your statement by saying that FIFA has been inconsistent in its rulings. I don't think there is a list.
     
  7. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  8. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  9. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Frédéric Veseli is another (former) Swiss youth international that has decided to switch to Albania. He captained the U-17 Swiss team that won the world cup. No controversy here - they need him more than we do.

    But with Albania now having the 2016 Euro carrot they may go after some of our other, more valued players.
     
  10. thewitness

    thewitness Member

    Melbourne Victory, Derby County
    Australia
    Jul 10, 2013
    Club:
    Derby County FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    The weren't allowed to use their Brazilian players for that game. That's why it ended 10-0
     
  11. rooboy91

    rooboy91 Member

    Apr 25, 2007
    Perth, Australia
    Club:
    Perth Glory
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Just need one of their opponents to follow the correct process when they make a complaint.
     
  12. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  13. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    if a player was born in country "B" and his father held the nationality of country "A" but his father was not born in country "A" because he is a citizen of country "C" meaning he gained the nationality of country "A". Does that mean the player in question has to reside for 2 or 5 years after the age of 18 in order to play for country "A"?

    I ask this because of Alfredo Morales of the USA

    He was born in Berlin
    His father was born in Peru
    His mother was born in Germany
    his father gained american citizenship through military service (I think).

    I am confused how he qualifies for the USA after reading article 5, 6 and 7. I would understand how he qualifies if his father had actually been born in the USA then it would be pretty straight forward, but his father was born in Peru and gained the American nationality

    Article 5 does state
    1. Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence in a certain Country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the Association of that Country

    however Article 6 also states

    1. A Player who, under the terms of art. 5, is eligible to represent more than one Association on account of his nationality, may play in an international match for one of these Associations only if, in addition to having the relevant nationality, he fulfils at least one of the following conditions:
    a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
    b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
    c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
    d) He has lived continuously on the territory of the relevant Association for at least two years.

    Morales was not born in the USA and neither was his Father (gained the citizenship), so while Morales is an american citizen he would not meet the FIFA requirements (as I understood them)

    Article 7

    Acquisition of a new nationality Any Player who refers to art. 5 par.1 to assume a new nationality and who has not played international football in accordance with art. 5 par. 2 shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfils one of the following conditions:
    a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
    b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
    c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
    d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association.

    Again Morales or Father were not born in the USA.

    Morales has also resided in Germany his whole life
     
  14. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Remember, the idea behind the article is to keep footballers from being granted easy citizenship for football reasons. So timing is everything. If the person was eligible from birth (such is Morales' case) than the citizenship is fine by FIFA. If the person is a footballer but obtained citizenship for "non-football reasons" there are also appeal process for this.

    There are certainly ways to abuse this. For instance Ireland nationality law confers Irish citizenship to all persons born in North Ireland. Because of this law the Irish FA has poached numerous North Irish players. FIFA has not tried to block this at all.
     
  15. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is a waiver system available for unusual situations and we know from another case that the US has applied for a number of these. It's possible that he has been granted an eligibility waiver that we aren't aware of.
     
  16. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    At the very minimum, I'm certain that the US has sent in Morales' paperwork for review by FIFA. They do this in a lot of cases.
     
  17. thewitness

    thewitness Member

    Melbourne Victory, Derby County
    Australia
    Jul 10, 2013
    Club:
    Derby County FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    Greek Born, Australian raised Apostolos Giannou, appears to be finally committing to the Australian NT.
    He had 8 Youth team appearances for Australia followed by 20 Youth team games for Greece, then appeared in one friendly for the Greek NT has been called up for Australia's upcoming WCQ's which will tie him to Aus now if he takes the field.
    This decision corresponds to Giannou's move to the Chinese Super League with Guangzhou R&F. He was the 2nd leading goalscorer in the Greek League this season, before the move to China.
     
  18. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
  19. Sudžuka

    Sudžuka Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 27, 2013
    Mato Jajalo(Palermo & Croatia) and Danijel Milicevic(Gent & Switzerland) are switching over to Bosnia. Mario Pavelic(Rapid & Austria) was also offered a spot on the team but he declined as he would lose his Austrian passport if he got a Bosnian one, and he did not want to do that.
     
  20. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Danijel Milicevic is a switch that made sense for all parties involved since he isn't in Switzerland's plans. I believe he also could have chosen Serbia. Funnily enough he may play against Switzerland with Bosnia this month.
     
  21. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Every Four Years repped this.
  22. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Interesting.
    Politics aside, it would even out the numbers a bit with only one Group having 5 teams instead of two Groups.
     
  23. leonidas

    leonidas Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    May 25, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
  24. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Actually, Gibraltar could also get FIFA membership on the same day as Kosovo after the CAS decision in favor of Gibraltar. Then all UEFA groups would have six teams.
    Yes, I imagine a limited window in which anyone who wants to switch can do so.
     
    Every Four Years and HomietheClown repped this.
  25. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is it rare to lose eligibility for a national team? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Wade says about Julian Wade "after being declared ineligible to further represent Montserrat under FIFA's new eligibility rules, Wade made an international switch to represent his native Dominica."
     

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