Peter Bosz and the New Ajax

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by Orange14, Jul 5, 2016.

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  1. Bran

    Bran Member

    Nov 18, 2010
    Nijmegen
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    This is over. Ajax lacks the tools to break down Mourinho's ultra-defensive tactics.
     
  2. curbo

    curbo Member

    Apr 14, 2012
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Gotta make the last 2 subs now for vdbeek/kluivert i assume. This is bad.
     
  3. 2nd_striker

    2nd_striker Member

    May 21, 2008
    London
    Midfield let ajax down
     
  4. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    The team that defended better deservedly won.
    Only Ajax player who played well was deLigt.

    Ugly game to watch btw.

    The good news is this is a very young team and they'll probably be back in the final in the next 5 years
     
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  5. richsavare

    richsavare Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Very poor match. Ajax no cutting edge.
     
  6. curbo

    curbo Member

    Apr 14, 2012
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Defense first and they (manu) simply have better players on each spot. What you guys did though especially in the first half is show them how to press effectively on the opponents side. You did that brilliantly, but sadly no end result. No cutting edge in the ''final third'.

    Of the 2 teams though this game, Ajax was much more exciting and interesting to watch. For whatever its worth.
     
  7. 2nd_striker

    2nd_striker Member

    May 21, 2008
    London
    Waiting for the player ratings.
     
  8. adri

    adri Member

    Jul 3, 2004
    Vancouver, Canada
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Poor final. Manu were nightmarishly negative, klaassen, dolberg, ziyech and riedewald were non existent, traore was just bad. Disappointed not to see Kluivert. Poor subs from Bosz.

    High hopes for next season though.
     
  9. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    One team came out to play football; the other team came out only to keep a clean sheet and hoped that they could snatch a cheap goal along the way. As it often happens, the anti-football team prevailed by a 0-2 score that flattered their doleful performance. If this is how the second richest football team in the world wants to play football, count me as an anti-fan. One goal off of a weak Ajax throw in and the other off a luck kick at a headed ball, yucky goals to be sure.

    Ajax tried their best with probably 70% of the possession much of it in the ManU half of the pitch. Unfortunately, they couldn't come up with the penetrating pass and former AZ keeper Romero had just catching practice tonight. The 4-2-3-1 defense was packed in too tightly. Other than the two week goals the Ajax defense stood tough. ManU players were easily dispossessed and both Sanchez and de Ligt acquitted themselves well. Their 19 year old wunderkind Rashford was no threat at all.

    Player Ratings:

    Onana (7) - no chance on either goal
    Riedewald (4) - a bit harsh but the throw in that led to the goal really had to be better
    de Ligt (8) - wonderful game
    Sanchez (8) - hustled all over the field and came back hard to deny a goal with a 50-50 challenge
    Veltman (7) - turned out he didn't need to do much defending and I don't know what he could have done better on the 2nd goal
    Schöne (6.5) - decent enough
    Ziyech (6.5) - OK game but there really were few passing lanes
    el Capitan (7) - put in a strong shift in what might have been his last Ajax game
    Younes (7) - just couldn't beat a packed in defense
    Dolberg (5) - saw little of the ball and was no factor at all
    Traore (7) - worked hard but there was no way through to goal
    van de Beek (7) - did a nice job getting free in the box but the off foot shot was easily saved
    Neres (7) - gave a spark of life but again no way through to goal
    de Jong (6) - good play coming on late

    It was great to get to the final of a European competition. The win was not to be but Ajax kept true to their history, working hard, passing and trying to attack. Let's hope that the key players stick around for next season and that we can make it through to the group stage of the CL. There is a lot of future here.
     
    Brilliant Dutch repped this.
  10. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    Mourinho understood that letting possession to Ajax would benefit his team. Lyon and Schalke tried to play open attack/defence games against Ajax and lost.

    This game was just like watching the last France-Netherlands games. Dutch football with possession is harmless and static. There's not much the players could do tonight, Younes did make differences and I absolutely don't understand Mr S criticizing him. He did beat his opponent several times but there were always two manchester defenders in the box ready to block his shots, so he had to look for lateral passes.

    Ziyech tried to break lines with his passes, sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. Schone disappointed me tonight, he abused of lateral passes, I thought he would try better things.

    Orange14, I don't understand how you could like Klaassen tonight...He was absolutely no factor on the ball and even defensively Pogba beat him many times, just like in every last France-Netherlands games...Time for him to leave and give the spot to Van de Beek who is a much better player.

    Sanchez and De Ligt were very strong behind.
     
  11. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I'm off to see my daughter's chamber choir sing the national anthem at tonight's Washington Nationals baseball game.

    I'll catch up with all the comments tomorrow.
     
  12. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    DeLigt is gonna be the best centerback in the world in 3 to 4 years from now
     
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  13. Mr.S

    Mr.S Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    I just don't think the Ajax attackers did enough, there is literally not a single great chance with 70% possession or so against a mediocre backline of MU. Younes is a scrub as in with his very mediocre decision making as is Traore, both of them tried but they probably don't have the talent to beat a well organized defense.

    But my main gripe with Younes is his invisible 1st half performance where he did nothing. Sanchez for example is a fabulous tackler but also a turnover machine while I find De Ligt more reliable & safe.

    The Front 3 were mediocre compared to the level required, no 2 ways about it, barely created any danger ! Onana's distribution was very good, he was calm & that really impressed me. Playing with Krul for the NT & then you get Onana !
     
  14. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    Younes did have nice moments in 1st half. Remember when he got past his opponent and have a good pass to Traore who shot on the goal.

    Manchester's defence was just too hard tonight. Even Neres couldn't make any difference, there were often two men on him. Mkhitaryan and Mata spent more time defending than attacking. In first half Miki was making fouls on Veltman, not the opposite.
    The CB's never left the box, there was simply 0 counter attack possible for Ajax and that's where Ajax and Younes are strong.
     
  15. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member+

    Apr 5, 2005
    Had Ajax scored first, it will force ManU to open up and take risks going forward, and the game would be more exciting. The 95 team was much more mature and it was Champion League compared to this Europa League, but it is still positive to get this far. If Bosz can elevate them to the next level next year, we can have hopes. We are still not there yet, both clubs and NT, still a long way to go.
     
  16. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I was very impressed with the pace of your CBs. I've never seen Rashford beaten for pace consistently by both CBs. Sanchez needs work as does De Ligt but they offer an impressive platform off which you may build. Wanted to see young Kluivert last night tho.
     
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  17. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Unfortunately Sanchez will probably be gone next year. Thats the problem with a small club like ours, you cannot hold on to talent these days anymore.

    Anywho, congrats on your EPL title
     
  18. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Here are my further reflections on the match after watching the replay this morning. It's always the little things that matter in football as even a minor mistake can be magnified and change the course of the match. I looked at how Reidewald was signaling the players to move further up the pitch on the poor throw in. I wonder if it didn't slip a little when he threw it as he was looking to throw it a lot further than he did. Then you had Klaassen who was just a shad off of Pogba on the shot and then the deflection by Sanchez. On the second goal I ran the replay several times to see that Felani gave Dolberg a little shove so he couldn't jump properly and contest for the ball. He might not have won the ball from Smalling but we won't know. Anyway, they were two pretty light weight goals but enough to decide the match.

    ManU's tactical defense was just right for a team whose midfielders just cannot pass quickly enough. Spaces were always at a premium with a back four and five sitting in front of that. The ManU back four cleared every single high ball driven into the box. Additionally, you had Fellani in the middle of the front bank of players and his height further obstructs things. Ajax had 17 shots on goal but only three on frame and those were all easily saved. The best chances came with Traore's shot in the first half from some nice play by Younes; van de Beek getting free in the box and taking a left footed shot; and finally Neres breaking in on goal only to chip the defender but leaving the ball a little too far to get a shot off. There were some attempts at touch passes and back heels but too many defenders were in the way for those to be effective. In a game like this one, Ajax really needed to score first so that ManU could not execute their hunker down defense.

    Looking at the player performances, Klaassen had a poorer match than I rated him at yesterday. Ziyech was a non factor and Schöne was a little better. I thought Younes was more than decent in the first half and just OK in the second. Traore tried to make things happen but is too one-footed and cannot go to his right. He's not good enough for Chelsea and it will be interesting to see which EPL team he goes to (certainly Kluivert and Neres have far more promise than he does). This was a game where Dolberg would never have any impact given the slow passing of Ajax; he also showed that he is at least two years away from playing at a top tier team.

    The back line played extremely well when they were challenged. de Ligt was amazing and I don't think he made a single bad play the entire match. Sanchez was excellent and coming back to push Lingard off the ball on the late breakaway was good to see. Veltman and Riedewald were seldom bothered and managed to acquit themselves pretty well when players came down the wing (though Valencia did beat Riedewald but Onana made a nice save on a very hard shot).

    What happens now? Certainly Tete will be leaving unless something dramatic by Overmars happens. Klaassen should leave both from the perspective of his own ambition and the need to find a proper balance in the MF. Veltman may leave but who will pay money for him other than some mid-table team. Sanchez showed that he can play at a very high level but is he ready for a team such as Barca right now? I would like to see him at Ajax for another year but don't think it will happen (but we should get top € for him). I was hoping Ziyech would come up big yesterday but that didn't happen. I'm not sure what his long term value is at this point.

    The club now goes into the third qualification round for the CL with a two leg match in late July. the Turkish and Greek leagues still are not finished so two of the possible Ajax opponents are not known. We do know that Steau Bucharest, Young Boys, or Nice might be opponents. We will know for sure on July 14 when the draw takes place.

    Congrats to Bosz and the staff for molding this team and getting them to the final of a Europe competition where they had to take on a team with far greater financial resources. They also came in a solid second, missing out on the league championship by a narrow margin. For me it was a successful season and a harbinger of good things to come
     
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  19. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I think you can hold him for another two seasons if you want to. The team's that can force your hand to sell him need him to be a little bit better in passing.

    As for our midfield "not being able to pass quick enough" that wasn't the case at all. Our goal was not to concede. If we kept a clean sheet, we could guarantee a win and a cup. Ajax pressed well, but not more so than Chelsea or Spurs or any number of teams we face twice per season minimum. The problem is that your team wasn't very mature and although you dominated possession yesterday, that was the only thing you dominated. Our plan was to take away your strength (your attack) and rely on a mistake or two from you. That was always on the cards given your record in the tournament.

    Perhaps the plan may have been different if we had Zlatan, Bailly and Rojo or a fit Shaw. As things were, it made no sense to play an open game.
     
  20. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    We hope Sanchez stays but if big money comes chasing it will be hard to turn down. If he does leave, de Ligt moves over to the right side and Viergever who was suspended for the match will play on the left where he started most of the season. Sanchez enables the team to play at a higher level in Euro competition but his absence won't be as damaging in the Dutch League.

    I commented on this a lot over on the ManU forum as you know. I think you guys are way overestimating our attack. Ajax have been very wasteful in front of goal this season and if you look at our EL matches we played two very good ones, some fair ones, and some that were not so good. Ajax are a very easy team to defend against because our MF is not a quick passing team.

    Mourinho tactically played the game in the correct manner. We don't like that style of play and certainly I voiced my opinion on this in my match report. Factually, we started a team of youngsters against a team of veterans; it was always going to be an uphill climb but you never know in football.

    I did complement you over on your forum and wished your team well only to get dumped on and insulted as a troll by one of your posters. We tend to accept those who post over here and not insult them. I'll leave it at that!
     
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  21. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Interesting perspective on Ajax from The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... ague-final

    Only problem is he has likely not seen many Ajax matches this season. We all know that these were the same faults that Ajax have exhibited against even lesser opposition.
     
  22. This ManUnited has no business next season in the CL. the 2nd goal should have been annulled as it was dangerous high kick (like that winner in our league by your Columbo).
    They will be kicked around by the top continental teams.
    Well, all in all a disappointing end for Dutch football.
    Is going to be a busy summer with CL qualies to play. Do you have to win one round to get in?
     
  23. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    The big problem was inaccurate passing and a lack of courage. Conceding that early was another big problem. Didn't have to be like that. Now everybody is saying that Bosz got tactically overclassed. Which is too simple. What a shame.
     
    Orange14 repped this.
  24. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Two rounds same as this past season.
     
  25. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    Romantic footballers like Ziyech rarely show up in big games and finales. It was more a game for Klaassen to score a rubbish goal, but he didn't.

    Ziyech is worth 20-25 millions at the moment, it's quite a bargain for him when you see mediocre english players moving for 30-40 millions. He isn't good enough to be a starter in any top team which are Chelsea, City, United, Real, Barca, Atletico, PSG, Juventus and Bayern at the moment...(I'm not only judging results, I'm considering other parameters).

    But he can be a starter or at least a luxurious sub in the 2nd category clubs which are Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool, Monaco, Napoli and Dortmund.
     

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