Percentage of MLS players eligible to play for U.S. team?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Scotty, Jun 3, 2013.

  1. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And the use of Green Cards is getting more widespread.
     
  2. cpwilson80

    cpwilson80 Member+

    Mar 20, 2001
    Boston
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do you have this by position as well? If it's not too much work, I'd love to see the numbers, particularly in attack.
     
  3. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's what you'd expect, I imagine.

    GK: 67.47%
    DF: 58.52%
    MF: 48.09%
    FW: 40.68%
     
  4. cpwilson80

    cpwilson80 Member+

    Mar 20, 2001
    Boston
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks, and yes, exactly what I thought.

    This is also why any US attacking player under 21 who starts earning minutes generates at least some level of excitement.
     
  5. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Where did you find that info?
     
  6. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The spreadsheet I keep on my computer. :)
     
  7. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    So... DC is our Chivas?
     
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  8. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    So the numbers @Balerion posted are great and all but it doesn't really get into very fine detail of the type of players there are. For instance, are we full of good CBs but weak on LBs? That's crucial stuff. Four years ago there was quite a big discussion on who would take over for Boca and Gooch. I was one of the posters that wasn't very worried since to my eyes we had many good young CBs in MLS.

    What are the opinions on our strong spots and weak spots for Americans in MLS?

    For instance, for the first time ever it seems that we have many good American AMs
    The forward positions seems to have it's fair share of candidates also but I'm not certain of actual strength.
    CB is stronger than ever.
    CM still seems strong.
    DM is strong.
    LB and RBs ..... need work.
     
  9. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    I don't know how much info @Balerion keeps in his spreadsheet, but your comments suggest that we should be drilling into his numbers by age. How many US mins by position age 25 and below? And for a second cutoff, how about mins by position age 21 and below?
     
  10. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can pull the numbers by birth year, but I have reservations about refining "position" beyond GK/DF/MF/FW. Even with four choices, I have to make subjective decisions. With more than that, it gets too complicated and subjective to assign specific positions to players, many of whom are too versatile for such a system.
     
  11. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    This cycle, the spots with the most variations have been LW (Green, Gyau, Wood, Bedoya, Corona, Fabian, Morales, Morris, Ibarra, Gil, Shea) and LCM (Corona, Shea, Bedoya, Bradley, Nguyen, Morales, Diskerud, Trapp, Kitchen).

    In general, left midfield seems to be a problem area, with no one owning the spot (I guess JK expected Fabian Johnson to do it, but he has failed at it).
     
  12. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I wasn't expecting more data. I was expecting more of a discussion.
     
  13. cpwilson80

    cpwilson80 Member+

    Mar 20, 2001
    Boston
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think there are two questions embedded in the strong spot/weak spot discussion:

    1) Who is actually getting minutes?
    2) What is the national team potential for those players?

    I'll use an example close to home: Tommy Thompson probably looks better by the second metric than the first. However, at some point, he'll need to earn minutes to fulfill that potential (which is hopefully on the horizon).

    Perry Kitchen is an example of a guy who checks both boxes. He's played 2,700+ minutes in each of his first four seasons, and earned his first cap this year. And at 23, he has potential to contribute to two World Cup cycles.

    With regards to position, as always, I'm concerned about finding a wide attacking player with pace and 1 v. 1 skills. I don't even think we need to find a 90 minute player...just someone who will create width higher up the field and provide a different option.
     
  14. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Just my opinion of the state of each position in MLS of non-established National Team players:

    GK: Nothing too special. The better GK's at the senior level and youth level are in Europe. Some decent depth though.

    RB: Incredibly poor. I think the departures of Yedlin and Cameron really hurt the position. The MLS RB's 2o and under are very good, but not yet impact level players.

    CB: Very good. Maybe the best its been. Two NT veterans play in MLS in their prime. Tons of quality CB's are getting left out of NT picture because the position is so deep. Great in the 20 and under category.

    LB: Better than RB, but still poor. Shea and then Beasley are NT LB's of late in MLS, but no one too outstanding. Some depth in younger options, but no one that really stands out.

    #6: Really good. Up there with CB for the best position. Tons of NT quality players and tons of quality younger players.

    #8: Similar to #6, but a little less depth.

    Wingers: Mediocre. A few NT quality players, but not that much depth. Some intriguing younger options, but most of them are questionable NT prospects. Younger prospects are actually pretty good at this position.

    #10: Lacking at best, non-existent at worst. A few intriguing options, but none are really NT level players as of yet.

    Strikers: The top end talent is there, but lacks depth. Very little quality among the younger players except for one or two standouts.
     
  15. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Pretty close to what I see except for #10. Feilharber, Nguyen, Shipp, Mix, Sacha. You can say anything except non-existent.
     
  16. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I guess I look at it differently. Some positions like CB, CM and striker have established NT players who've played in WC's and are among our better players.

    The #10 position might have a few players who could contribute to the NT, but the amount of players playing the #10 position that are currently "NT level starters" is probably 0. I wouldn't even consider Diskerud and Kljestan as #10's for the National Team. The other three are players who you could argue are NT caliber players, but certainly not established NT level starters yet.
     
  17. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Toscana
  18. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Toscana
    Seems that Italy is following right behind England when it comes to the plummeting number of native players in their league. Azzurri coach Antonio Conte:

    "My worry ahead of qualifying for the 2022 World Cup is how much things have changed since 2006, when Marcello Lippi won the World Cup," said Conte.

    "Back then an Italy Coach had the possibility of choosing around 61-62 Italians from every 100 players. Today that choice has dropped to 33 Italians out of 100.

    "This is a real problem and the biggest danger facing Italy today. It will be difficult for Italy to be competitive if we can only pick 33 per cent of the available players. Those figures mean there is a problem and we have to invert the trend."

    http://www.football-italia.net/68982/conte-not-enough-italians
     
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  19. Adiaga Two

    Adiaga Two Member+

    Oct 4, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I feel like these arguments (whether in Italy, England, or here) are generally overstated when comes to affecting the national teams.

    A national team only needs a nebulous group of 30-40 players at a given time. Even if only third of players in Serie A are Italian or only a third of players in the Prem are English, for both countries that's still a group of around 100 players getting regular minutes in a top league.

    The only difference now is that the next 50 players on the national team depth chart (who would have made top-flight squads 10-15 years ago) have been pushed down to their domestic second divisions. It's hard for me to see how this truly weakens a national team when these players are not really getting anywhere near the national team anyway.
     
  20. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Through July 11, Current numbers stand at 52.32% and 56.06%. Numbers ticked down a little in June, but now are rising again. This week has been very American heavy, as the domestic numbers are benefiting from the Gold Cup, which has taken away more foreigners than Americans.

    US-eligible players: (current in bold, May 4 in regular typeface)

    1. (1) DC - 92.07% - 87.52%
    2. (2) NE - 82.21% - 81.19%
    3. (3) NYC - 77.83% - 73.81%
    4. (11) KC - 54.65% - 60.77%
    5. (8) SJ - 55.57% - 59.11%
    t-6.
    (4) HOU - 63.19% - 58.78%
    t-6. (7) COL - 57.08% - 58.78%
    8. (13) PHI - 50.39% - 58.18%
    9. (5) LA - 60.31% - 55.79%
    10.
    (9) TOR - 55.13% - 53.61%
    11. (10) NYRB - 54.81% - 52.58%
    12. (6) CHI - 57.70% - 52.55%
    13.
    (15) RSL - 45.53% - 49.70%
    14. (12) DAL - 54.28% - 47.97%
    15.
    (14) CLB - 46.94% - 47.08%
    16.
    (16) SEA - 42.06% - 45.89%
    17.
    (17) MTL - 40.43% - 41.49%
    18.
    (18) POR - 28.51% - 25.69%
    19.
    (19) ORL - 26.23% - 23.07%
    20. (20) VAN - 4.35% - 8.15%
     
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  21. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    The following teams are coached by ex-players who had extended MLS careers and never joined a foreign club:

    The following teams have foreign coaches:

    As Coyle develops his roster, it'll be interesting to see how its composition changes.
     
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  22. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    56.17% of MLS minutes have gone to domestically developed players. This is how it breaks down by birth year:

    [​IMG]


    Here's what the overall distribution looks like including foreign-developed players:

    [​IMG]

    (I see I swapped X and Y axis labels but can't be bothered to re-upload)


    And lastly, a graph of the % of total minutes that domestically developed players have played by birth year, from Jon Busch to Alejandro Zendejas:

    [​IMG]
     
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  23. Adiaga Two

    Adiaga Two Member+

    Oct 4, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Doesn't really defeat your premise (which is solid), but Ben Olsen did spend a season with Nottingham Forest at one point.
     
  24. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    It's not the cause of the weakening it's the effect. Assume that the level of the league compared to the level of talent in the world stays relatively the same. Having fewer domestic players in the league means that the level of the domestic talent pool has dropped relative to the level of talent in the world. It would take a change in the distribution of domestic talent towards the high end to compensate for that, meaning the domestic player pool would need those top 30-40 players to be better than the next cohort of talent below them by more than they were in the past to maintain the same level of performance relative to international competition.
     
  25. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We try to forget about that.
     

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