Do you happen to have the stat for the total percentage that US-eligible players make up in the league this season, according to the rosters? (by that I mean regardless of minutes played)
I don't think I follow. Certainly, there is room for interpretation for what counts as "US-developed". There's even some room for interpretation for what counts as "US-eligible".
You specifically use the example of Dom Dwyer. Dwyer has played in the US since 2009 when he played as a Junior College player he has not played anywhere other than the US since he arrived here. He is just as much a product of the US system as a young Christian Pulisic who left as to go to Germany. Kekuta Manneh would also be a product of the US system.
It's worth pointing out though that Dwyer was an adult when he came over (19 yo), whereas Pulisic was 16 when he joined Borussia Dortmund's academy.
My personal definition of US-developed includes players who came to the US before college, so I don't count Dwyer. Clearly yours differs, hence my statement that these definitions are subjective.
I think the vast majority of folks wouldn't consider Dwyer as being "developed" in the United States. Dom Dwyer spent most of his youth career at Norwich (until he was 16), and then moved for a short period to King's Lynn. King's Lynn is sort of an IMG-style academy in the UK with a bunch of different sports programs. On our USYNT threads we typically think of "youth development" as occuring until about the age of 18. After that there's certainly "player development" that continues.
One of the big arguments that many in this forum have is that College does not develop players for the MLS/Pros/NT. That players are better off not going to College and going the pro route. He was from a country that that has great scouts/academies and slipped through the cracks. Our college system prepared him to be a pro when the system that existed in England missed him. To continue the line of thinking was Clint Dempsey ready to turn pro when he went to Furman? Was Jordan Morris ready to turn pro when he went to Stanford? Colleges are part of the development system we have in this country.
When you are using an informal, back-of-the-envelope system in which every player is classified into binary categories (US developed vs. non-US developed), I'm going to go ahead and give more credit for 0-18 than for 19-22. Your mileage may vary, of course.
Its your evaluation system so go ahead. I would love to have answers to my questions on Morris and Dempsey though.
I have my opinions, but since there have been countless BigSoccer threads about this topic over the years, I'll do my part not to turn this thread into another one.
The industry definition is typically all the way to u-23. See: http://www.ecaeurope.com/Research/ECA Report on Youth Academies/ECA Report on Youth Academies.pdf
Do you think US development should take the lion's share of the credit for guys like Dom Dwyer, Patrick Nyarko, Fabian Herbers, et al?
Using Dom as an example, and using his wikipedia as the information. His development starts in 2000 and ends when he enters the MLS in 2012. Using twelve years as his development model 3 of the 12 took place in the USA. So 1/4th of his development is through the US paradigm. Arguably the most important most important three years because they did not see a future for him as a pro in England.
More informed people than we two have come up with that number so I don't feel the need to defend it. You can do what you want but it certainly seems to be a lot of error prone work to check every single college draftee's background.
I think by now most of us should realize that there is no magic statistic that tell us whether MLS is producing for the future of the NT. With that in mind I want to measure how much MLS trusts their promoted players - guys who entered the league through HGP, GA or Superdraft. This tells me how much MLS trusts the guys who they brought in young. This also means I'm not counting guys like Spector, Lletget, Jones and Bedoya. Why no nationality test? Well because our league belongs to two countries and it is no easy task to quantify how well MLS does for both Canada and the US. Mostly though, because the percentage of nationalized players in the January MLS camp is pretty close to the same as the percentage of foreign born promoted players. My count for week 1 was 125 players. That's 51.7% of all players. Considering that we've seen a 15% increase of teams in the last three years and have close to doubled in size in the last ten years I think MLS is pretty healthy.
It also shows that their is no one tried and true path to the Pros, National team. Dempsey home grown goes to US college goes to MLS then to eventually to Englands highest league and back to the MLS. Morris home grown goes to college and to MLS rest of career to be determined. CP home grown goes to German Academy and German 1st Div. Dwyer washes out from English Academy goes to US college and to MLS and may one day play NT soccer could even go back to England as a pro. Wood promising player goes to Europe and makes it with 2nd Division club that promotes to first division.. there is not one correct path to get a player to his dreams.
Information on whether college players were recruited from domestic high schools or from abroad is widely available.
Continuing discussion of the topic that Twellman brought up: http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-...ers-face-greater-competition-for-roster-spots This chart is helpful (to a degree) as it shows the raw number of US-born players. Number of U.S.-born players to feature in MLS Of course, "US-born" doesn't necessarily equal "USMNT-eligible." And the raw number is more important than the percentage.
Just as a point of comparison from baseball. MLB notes: Foreign-born players at record percentage in majors http://www.stltoday.com/sports/base...cle_0ebf20d1-c5bf-55ad-9db8-0607c6fd2a7d.html I've been a baseball fan for a long time, and I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've heard a fellow fan complain about the percentage of foreign players on their team. My team, the Texas Rangers, have a lineup of predominantly foreign players. Complaining about the percentage of foreign players in a league is a real soccer thing. They seem to do it in every league in Europe. No matter what the percentage is, folks are worried about it. And we all know the situation in MLS. The talent pool of American born players isn't keeping up with rapid expansion..............while we're trying to raise the quality of the league. And as salaries increase, the league is becoming increasingly attractive to foreign talent.
Even though baseball has the WBC, there really isn't a baseball equivalent to the World Cup and regional competitions. The NBA comes the closest and you do hear some complaints when the US doesn't win the gold (mostly Olympics, but starting to drift into the World Championships). If we cared about the WBC (and didn't just win it), we might hear more complaints about the ratio.
Its worth noting that the percentage of foreign players in MLB in that quoted article is at 29.8%. The percentage of US born players quoted in that Twellman-inspired article is 43.5%. That would imply that the percentage of foreign born players is 56.5%. Almost double what it is in baseball. If the percentage of foreign players in baseball doubled over the next decade, we'd probably really start to hear about it. For now baseball fans just seem to want their own club to get the best possible lineup. That means if you're a Rangers fan and you're starting lineup has one or two American born players in it (typically Napoli and Lucroy for those who care)......................you don't even notice it. Its typically bullpen shrapnel bringing up the percentage of American-born players. What are the most common names in baseball right now? Top 4? Rodriguez, Gonzalez, Martinez, and Hernandez. [Players with those last names aren't necessarily foreign-born of course.] Last night the White Sox starting outfield? Garcia, Garcia, and Garcia...................... History. #Gar3ia WATCH: https://t.co/NiBQwev4EW pic.twitter.com/IDGSZGNKvl— Chicago White Sox (@whitesox) April 15, 2017
The percentage of foreign players in MLS is not out of line with that of the bigger leagues of Europe. Number of US-eligible players to have received minutes this season: 213 Number of U23s: 48 Number of U20s: 11 12 was the number of U20s for all of last season. source: whoscored