Here is a familiar graph of the UEFA coefficients in the 1980s although those coefficients say not so much about the depth of a league (as well as other issues) There is a clear and rapid rise between 1983 and 1986. In this respect it is important to keep in mind that it is based on a five-years period, so the 1986 year (when they came on top) takes the results of 81-82, 82-83, 83-84, 84-85 and 85-86 into account. Which does not mean that they were dominating the others of course (the rough coefficients are unfortunately less usable). As such, and also based on what I've read I'd say that the significance of AS Roma should not be underestimated, before Milan entered the scene who took it a step further (the spectacular win against English side Ipswich Town in 1982/1983 UEFA Cup is sometimes seen as a watershed moment).
Another thing I wondered about is: was Serie A really more backward as England, Germany (which also received criticism for tactics - according to some experts it only modernized in the 1990s) or Spain with their real assassins?
What I wanted to say was not that Serie A early 80s lacked quality. It's obvious there was more talent than in perhaps any other country: Italy had an excellent generation with Conti, Scirea, Rossi, Bettega, Altobelli, the Baresi brothers ...etc. Already before the opening of borders (summer 80), Serie A should have been AT LEAST as good and attractive as the Bundesliga. But it wasn't, and that was due to the collective catenaccio psycopathy that paralized players. It seemed the wet dream of all coaches was to win by 1-0 on a wrongly given penalty in the 94th minute after not having made one single attempt to score. And when a team went 1-0 up, they almost never - even against Ascoli, Avellino, Catanzaro or Pistoiese - tried to score a 2nd one. The Italian expression for it is amministrare un vantaggio (to administer a lead), which meant time wasting, complaining with the referee, playing the ball to the 'keeper 45 times etc. To win in this way was called vincere da grande (to win as a big team, that is, without even breaking into a sweat, saving energy...for what?) and the greatest praise was to call a team cinica (cynical). The catenaccio is indeed a good option in football, but only for a team that is extremely inferior to their opponent. But when a team like Inter, with their Rummeniges, Bradys and Altobellis do that against Groningen or IFK Göteborg it's pure self-harm. But that was the Zeitgeist back then. Someone talked about the gates, that were - indeed - excellent back then. But that's probably more a sociological issue than a footballistic. Bayern Munich with Breitner & Rummenigge sometimes played in front of 5-6000 people in the Olympic Stadium, while mediocre and grey teams like Avellino or Udinese usually had 35000-40000.
The most interesting and attractive teams in the early 80s were probably Dinamo Tbilisi, Anderlecht, Bobby Robson's Ipswich, occasionally Ajax, Benfica, FC Porto, Bayern, HSV, Spurs, Liverpool and - of course - Juventus and Roma. As for Spain, the Real Madrid teams that played the EC final 1981 and CWC final 1983 were very mediocre. Only in the winter of 1983-84, when Castilla players like Butragueño, Martín Vázquez and Sanchís made their debuts in the A team, they entered contemporary mentality. Barsa was pure chaos with Schuster and Maradona not living up to expectations. The dominating teams were Basque: Real Sociedad and Javier Clemente's Athletic, a team that was a far from today's possession and passing game as possible (San Mamés was usually a mud pit during winters back them, just as Anoeta).
Anoeta didn't exist yet, stupid... Atotxa was Real Sociedad's (slippery) ground. I should add Borussia M'gladbach and Saint-Etienne to the good/attractive teams. Gladbach sold theur best players year after year, starting from the 70s - Netzer, Stielike, Simonsen, Matthäus etc etc - but always managed to come back and play incredible football at times. Saint-Etienne were one of the most brilliant teams, but mentally fragile.
according to your opinion that it does not matter a damn. Castacurta, Maldini, Vierchowod who faced Maradona said that Ronaldo was more difficult to mark. You understand?
Maldini; "Ronaldo is the most difficult player he ever faced since Maradona" "Maradona is the best (ever?), Ronaldo in his first 2 seasons at Inter is also phenomenon"
Maldini in a recent interview on a program called Sfide broadcast on Rai 1 said that Ronaldo was the player most difficult to mark. Maldini affront Maradona when he was a teenager, I face Ronaldo when was 28 years. you understand ?? handicappato del cazzo
What happened to Maradona's dribbling in the Serie A? It seems he changed his style of playing since joining Napoli and never really went on great dribbling runs, especially when you compare his to his style of play when playing for the National Team. A lot of his dribbling attempts were stopped short, not by fouling but by well-timed tackles. More importantly though, was that his approach just seemed vastly different. He would pause frequently and dish out passes long-distance passes as a means of getting the ball forward. I initially thought that this was because of his injury at Barcelona, but that wouldn't make sense considering his style and runs in the 1986 World Cup. Then there is the argument that the Serie A was much more difficult to dribble in, but players still pulled off mazy dribble runs, and a lot of the successful attempts at stopping Maradona's dribble weren't "out of this world" defending as some would want you to believe. Take for instance this video: This playing style sums up the way Maradona played at Napoli based on what I have seen. The pauses, keeping his head on a swivel, waiting for a run, long-distance pass, as well as creativity in generating crosses, but what stands out is that there is no really impressive dribbling runs, like he would do as a younger player. Would you guys say this evolution shows an improvement or a decline from the absolute best version of Maradona?
Maradona was at Napoli for seven seasons, in his first two he showed that devastating dribbling that made opponents fear him when he was at the center line. However, dribbling takes a toll on the body and Maradona smartly started to rely more on his passing and crossing, particularly as Napoli brought in strong reinforcements in Carnevale and Careca. At WC86, he didn't have much of a choice, Valdano and Burruchaga were not going to decide a match against Italy, Uruguay, England or West Germany.
I think he minimised no. of chances to get injured. Napoli as much as people believe they were full of top players relied heavily on Maradona existence. The club and the Argentine team cannot afford to miss him as it happened in WC90 and WC94.
I would say it has to be a decline overall, but I'd suggest with some improvement in terms of vision/passing and suchlike (due I guess to having fully matured as a playmaker, but also probably because he was concentrating more on that side of the game).
In his first three seasons (1984 to 1987) Napoli played with two forwards, in his last four seasons with three (1987 to 1991). Or two forwards with him as free role AM behind if you like. You also see his assists skyrocket after the 1986-87 season, although that is in part because he started to take more set pieces. For example, in the 1988-89 UEFA Cup campaign he had nine assists, with six originating through a set piece (the likes of Ferrara and Careca were good in the air). In his first three he simply didn't take as many, for sure. Indeed, in some aspects he looks more mature and consistent, for example the shielding type of things and holding the ball. As you maybe remember 'we' (me) looked a while ago at the 1986-87 match against Toulouse and even him had a couple (two) bad trappings and controls there. That doesn't seem to happen (if not only sporadically) in later years when he's having a 'bad' game for his standards. Overall it seems that his ability to tilt a team to a higher level peaked between 1984 and 1986 though, in particular his first season. In later seasons he seems to express & transmit more confidence and 'personality' as in his very first (maturity but also a known side effect of cocaine addiction and the experience/morale boost of a champion). Statistically (controlled effect on team results) it appears there's a spike around late 1985, 1986. League goals without pens: 9 - 7 - 7 - 11 - 8 - 9 - 0. Coppa Italia goals without pens: 2 - 1 - 6 - 4 - 6 - 1 - 1 (note: set-up and opponents, Serie A/B/C level, changed over time). Europe goals without pens # - # 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 2
Long highlights: If some are interested I can upload his debut match vs Verona (1984-85, round 1) to the channel I created and make it private or so.
Yes, good idea to upload that (I guess you mean full match or extended highlights rather than only his touches? - His touches alone would be a quicker watch I suppose but would take a lot longer to edit and upload, and I guess it could be interesting to see champions Verona too). He scored one of his famous goals vs the same team a season later ofc - around the same time as his dribbling/free-kick exploits vs Juventus, so I'm feeling that period in late 1985 could be a candidate for his Serie A prime although the video Carlito added on the Messi/CR7 thread of an early 86/87 game shows him probably not far away from his 1986 WC form still and with slightly more emphasis even on passing over range (like he would do to good effect quite a bit from 87-88 when Careca joined - but yes I think you made a good point about set pieces etc too). And earlier in calendar year 1985 he had that performance vs Lazio of course. Pipiolo and Vegan might be the best people to offer a view on Serie A prime though I guess. Which of those highlights videos shows him in the best form would you say Puck?
True, that 1986-87 Torino game was in October 1986. As Krokko and others commented his move away from World Cup form came in november with rows around an illegal child, socializing with maffia, declined discipline around the team etc. Torino would end 9th in that season though. Yes, the spike is located around late 1985 and 1986 as I said above (= supporting other points of view). The best video is the Milan game, from memory. The worst is the one against Internazionale (I certainly remember). The loss against AS Roma is the one in between, with also a starring role for Ancelotti by the way (pre knee injuries).
First part out of 4 is uploading now, hopefully it works. Yes, it is the full match. I've also extended highlights of 1985-86 vs Torino that isn't on YT yet.
Good work - not sure when or if I'll watch in full (obviously I'm looking at Euros games as priority for a while now probably) but I know it's for everyone to view and I'm sure it'll be widely appreciated (just wanted to give you a reply myself as you were replying to me).
I want the 84-86 Serie a Maradona assists.thanks.nice work and it is very hard to find Maradona assists.If you have have Maradona full career assists,I want it.Maradona stats are lost.I want it.thank you very much.nice work.
It's non sense to talk to R9 fans,he made the video.I have seen the video,he just want us to believe Maradona is not the best ever.He made Maradona duels lost in video,it's not surprising me.Because everyone have duels lost.If someone just lets you see only the duels lost and mistake, it's non sense.don't mind it.He made it,it's another way of lying.
I really want the assits stats of Maradona in Serie A.anyone(but R9 fans) have it?It is a hard work.thank you very much.