Pele and Messi in finals

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by football_history_fan, Jun 30, 2016.

  1. football_history_fan

    Jul 4, 2013
    Club:
    Santos FC
    How arguably the two best players ever performed in finals.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Both are superb (not that far porcentage wise). Pele was better IMO. Messi's 4 finals losses and scoreless with Argentina drags him down a little.

    List with all the games and explanation.
    http://otaviopinto.com/index.php/2016/06/27/pele-messi-finals/
     
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  2. Di Pecruydona

    Di Pecruydona Member

    Nov 12, 2013
    Hamburg
    Club:
    MSV Duisburg
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Very impressing numbers by both + nice article.
    But please don't start another conversation about this:speechless:
     
    football_history_fan repped this.
  3. football_history_fan

    Jul 4, 2013
    Club:
    Santos FC
    lol. I understand. But it's fun! :thumbsup:
     
  4. fafaco

    fafaco Member+

    Jun 16, 2015
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    One thing that Pele, Maradona, and Messi all have in common, is that they never lifted the Copa America Trophy.
     
  5. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Major tournament sf and final matches (WC, EU/CA, EC/CL)

    Goals (Scored + Assisted + Involved)

    Messi 29 (8 + 9 + 12) out of 34 team goals in 24 games = 85% importance (+ 2 SO goals and 1 miss)
    Maradona 5 (2 + 1 + 2) out of 6 team goals in 5 games = 83% importance (+1 SO goal)
    Platini 13 (6 (3p) + 4 + 3) put of 16 team goals in 10 games = 81% importance (+1 SO goal)
    Pele 21 (13 (1p) + 6 + 2) out of 30 team goals in 9 games = 70% importance
    G.Müller 21 (18 + 0 + 3) out of 32 team goals in 16 games = 66% importance
    Zidane 22 (10 (3p) + 5 + 7) out of 35 team goals in 20 games = 63% importance (+ 1 SO goal)
    C.Ronaldo 18 (13 (3p) + 4 + 1) out of 32 team goals in 26 games = 56% importance (+ 1 SO goal and 2 misses)
    Eusebio 10 (7 (2p) + 1 + 2) out of 18 team goals in 13 games = 56% importance
    Romario 6 (3 + 0 + 3) out of 11 team goals in 5 games = 55% importance (+ 1 SO goal)
    Ronaldo 11 (7 + 2 + 2) out of 22 team goals in 10 games = 50% importance
    Iniesta 14 (3 + 5 + 6) out of 30 team goals in 23 games = 47% importance (+ 1 SO goal)
    Xavi 16 (1 + 7 + 8) out of 35 team goals in 25 games = 46% importance
    Cruyff 8 (3 + 2 + 3) out of 18 team goals in 14 games = 44% importance

    Note: missing Pele CL65 SF where he at least scored 3 goals of 8 in 3 games
    Note: missing Eusebio EC65 SF where he at least scored 2 goals of 8 in 3 games
     
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  6. EdgarAllanPoet

    EdgarAllanPoet Member+

    May 1, 2011
    For Messi to be in 23 "Finals" you are talking about Copa Del Reys, Super-cups and Club World Cups etc.....lol

    Messi: 3 Champion's League Finals, 2 goals...4 International Finals. 0 goals..... 7 finals, 2 goals.
     
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  7. Sir_Artur

    Sir_Artur Member

    Nov 21, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Contribution Per Game RATIO: 1.20
    CPGR: 1
    cPGR: 1.3
    2.3
    1.31
    1.1
    0.69
    0.76
    1.2
    1.1
    0.6
    0.64
    0.57
    including: 24 in 12 games = 2 CPGR . btw, if we count intercontinental cup as well, which was important back in the days of 60s because it meant more than a small trophy, that was a match of pride, honour, it was "European football vs South American football", then I guess CPGR of Pele will increase much since it was something like 7 goals in 3 matches+do not know how many assists. but we wont add this since we do not know in how many goals of the other goals Pele were involved in. THus, in the list below pele's CPGR ratio will be counted omitting these matches.
    including: 12 in 15 = 0.8 GPGR

    after all, the list will go on:
    1. Pele: 2.3 CPGR
    2. Muller: 1.31
    3. Platini: 1.3
    4-5. Messi&Romario: 1.2
    6. Ronaldo: 1.1

    Thnaks @Bada Bing for compiling the list and statistics.
     
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  8. Louis Soccer

    Louis Soccer Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Apr 17, 2017
    #8 Louis Soccer, Dec 10, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2017
    The finals in international tournaments are clear:

    Goals (Scored + Assisted + Involved)

    Pele 23 (13 + 6 + 4) out of 28 team goals in 9 games = 82% importance
    (World Cup, Intercontinental Cup, Copa Libertadores, Recopa Intercontinental)

    Maradona 6 (1 + 4 + 1) out of 8 team goals in 4 games = 75% importance
    (World Cup, UEFA Cup)

    Messi, 16 (9 + 2 + 5) out of 25 team goals in 14 games = 64% importance
    (World Cup, Copa America, Club World Cup, UEFA Champions League, European Super Cup)

    C.Ronaldo 10 (9 + 1 + 0) out of 22 team goals in 12 games = 45% importance
    (Club World Cup, UEFA Champions League, European Super Cup, UEFA European Championship)

    Pele was more important in international finals.
     
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  9. Caspian

    Caspian Member

    Sep 15, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Sir_Artur's and Louis Soccer's interpretation of the stats are more up to the mark.The stats speak for themselves and leaves no one in doubt as to who was the better performer in major finals.
    If we look at,goals avg,% of teams goals,games with at least 3 goals and goals with at least 2 goals we get a clear picture of how superior Pele's performances are to Leo's.
     
  10. Caspian

    Caspian Member

    Sep 15, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Correction: 'Games' with at least 2 goals.
     

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