Pekerman was almost coach of USA before Berhalter

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Chaliaaaj, Sep 9, 2019.

  1. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Even if the fed has that asinine requirement, their still are a bunch of foreign coaches that do speak English, that are miles ahead of Berhalter. To not even even given Tata an interview is disgraceful, btw.
     
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  2. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United
    Aug 3, 2000
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Pekerman is most famous for .... bottling the 2006 Argentinian WC campaign. He kept Messi on the bench and instead went for Julio Cruz. He also took Riquelme off (rightly), but went for the defensive minded Cambiasso. Should have been Argentina x Italy in the final.
     
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  3. Burr

    Burr Member+

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2014
    Tampa, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is very true, but I think USA would like to have that problem at this point.
     
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  4. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And I always feel the need to point this out ... the Messi that he left on the bench was 18 years old (or may have turned 19 DURING the tournament) and had all of 24 La Liga starts and 7 La Liga goals. When folk throw out Messi's name, we are all sub-consciously left by the speaker to believe that this was 2008 - onward Messi that he left on the bench. That simply isn't the Messi we are talking about.

    Hell, I remember when Brasil left a 17/18 year old on the bench under similar type circumstances 12 years earlier. Ronaldo did not play a minute of the tournament as Brazil eked out a victory. If they had lost, would we have blamed the coach for not throwing a baby Ronaldo out there?

    This is just the tendency of fans to try to blame coaches for everything under the sun, if that cant find enough of a goat on the field. Pekerman would have been fantastic for the US to hire.
     
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  5. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United
    Aug 3, 2000
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    You mean the 2005 U20 World Cup Golden Ball and Golden Boot award winner? That Messi? Just stop it. It was a terrible mistake on Pekerman's part, and in Argentina today his mention still brings ire. Messi already had a World Cup goal and assist prior to the Germany match.

    No, this is people who saw Argentina control the match against Germany with possession, only to see it pissed away in the latter minutes.
     
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  6. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, because the U20 is exactly like the full World Cup team. No difference there at all. I know he had a goal in that World Cup, but acting like he was the main man in Argentina at that time and not bringing him in was the reason for the loss is silly to me. Teams lose late sometimes. It happens. Hell, it happened to Argentina WITH Messi playing in 2014 when Higuaín couldn't hit the broadside of a barn on his breakaway in the WC final. The notion that Pekerman should wear the scarlet letter for all eternity for this perceived mistake in the eyes of the fanbase of Argentina has gotten ridiculous. The guy is an amazing coach, and has been so for decades. But you are right, one substitution decision in 2006 is determinative of a decades long career. Just stop it, indeed.
     
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  7. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United
    Aug 3, 2000
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Really dumb is really dumb. Playing scared is playing scared. With Riquelme, Argentina had complete control of the game. You replace him with a similar player and keep possession. You replace him with Messi or Aimar. You do not put Cambiasso in there, a defensive midfielder. Exactly the wrong move, especially against that German team. I was screaming at the TV when I saw that, and so were millions of other people. Everyone could see it. It was obvious. Later he took Crespo off and replaced him with the slow as molasses Julio Cruz. Just ridiculous.

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/worldcup2006blog/2006/jun/30/argentinablowitwithcrazys
     
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  8. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United
    Aug 3, 2000
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    No one blames Sabella for the 2014 loss to Germany. Everyone blames Pekerman for the 2006 loss to Germany. Why do you think that is? Why? Think about it.
     
  9. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I always here that and I always, ALWAYS, view it as b.s. (although in fairness, I forgot how little Messi played in the tournament in general, and not just the total lack of use in that game). People always forget to add the two key elements.

    #1: Argentina was leading from the 49th minute until late on.

    #2: Argentina had to sub off their Keeper after he was injured by a German player with less than 20 minutes left. When you have to sub off your keeper due to injury your flow of subs goes straight to hell, especially in games that end up having a late lead change to a draw followed by extra time. That flow of subs is totally warped by such a thing happening.

    I do agree that Pekerman did not use Messi enough ALL TOURNAMENT LONG, he just seemed to eschew utilizing him due to his youth despite Messi already rapidly climbing into best in the world territory (if memory serves, his immortal moment against Getafe was six months earlier), but really what cost Argentina was the keeper injury. I remain convinced they would've won that game, and the tournament if not for the Keeper injury.
     
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  10. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Nope, only Chicago, only native English.
     
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  11. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Benny had a great half against that Messi.
     
  12. Chaliaaaj

    Chaliaaaj Member

    Argentinos Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 21, 2018
    The person who told me about Pekerman was actually gonna be on his coaching staff, scouting players through the entire West Coast. He told me everything was set to be done until they decided to hire Berhalter.
     
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  13. skim172

    skim172 Member+

    Feb 20, 2013
    The ability to speak English is an obvious plus, because it cuts down on possible miscommunications and you save on the salary of a permanent interpreter. However, there are many national teams around the world for whom "Ability to speak the native language" is not a feasible requirement if they want to get a quality coach - and they've been able to make it work.

    It comes down to the individuals involved. If the manager and the players buy in and commit to working with one another, communication will happen, regardless of the language barrier.

    That's a trickier ask than it should be. Plenty of teams have seen players mutiny over petty disagreements with the coach ... including the USMNT in very recent times. And when we had players commenting freely to the press that they thought the USMNT needed an American coach - that made me concerned that (a) our players weren't quite as professional about this as they should be and were maybe feeling too empowered over the direction of the MNT, and (b) they would indeed grumble and express resentment with a coach purely because he didn't speak English.

    I think the stipulation that the coach had to be a "native English speaker" was partly out of concern that the players would reject a foreign-born coach. In recent times, we had a head coach ousted by the team veterans, and then a head coach brought in to cater to those veterans - a head coach who had a player-first mentality who established a locker room culture to further empower veterans. Also, the coaching search was headed by an ex-player, and then they hired an ex-player.

    Would the players have indeed rejected a non-English speaker? Some of them, probably. But catering to that is stupid, and further suggests how lacking in authority and direction our Fed is. Players need to have a voice, need to have input, and need to have a substantial role in the organization - but authority has to reside with the leadership. Players advise - leadership decides. You can't determine your organization's future based on the possibility that some player might have been like, "Naw mang, I don't wanna listen to no one who don't speak with no General or Inland North American linguistic dialect".
     
  14. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    The game of internet telephone is always interesting to watch.

    There's never been any official confirmation or more than internet rumors about a language requirement, much less a "native speaker" requirement.

    And yet even someone somewhat defending the practice is stating a "native language requirement" basically as fact.

    I have no doubt that USSF was looking for a coach that could effectively communicate with the players and with Earnie, Tab and the rest of the soccer side of US Soccer. I don't think they needed a native speaker as a ton of coaches out there are non-natives and highly fluent in English.
     
  15. skim172

    skim172 Member+

    Feb 20, 2013
    I'll grant you that "native speaker" was just speculation on my part.

    English-speaking, however, was definitely a requirement, straight from the Earnie's mouth.



    This was Earnie's first public presser after taking over as GM. At the time, he also stated that Jay Berhalter would not be involved in the hiring process, and that even though he and Gregg knew each other, had played together, and called one another for coaching advice throughout the years, they totally weren't friends.

    You know, looking back on it, it was almost like Earnie felt it was very important to establish that his relationship with Gregg was entirely professional. Almost like Earnie already knew Gregg would get the job and needed to make sure people didn't think there had been any preferential treatment involved.

    But there I go speculating again. ;)
     
  16. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Living in Chicago was the only other Rock solid requirement. It was set up for Greg from the beginning. They just wanted to fart around for 18 months before naming him, for some reason.
     
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  17. Winoman

    Winoman Drinkin' Wine Spo-De-O-De!

    Jul 26, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To try to give the appearance of due diligence...
     
  18. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    On My Squatty Potty
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well Berhalter speaks perfect English yet our players appear more confused about what he wants than ever before.
     
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  19. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    How perfect would it have been to hire a Tata or Pekerman and hire his hoped-for eventual replacement to be his translator. Make Beerholder take a few Rosetta Stone courses. Make him stand next to the coach for 4 years, translate his every instruction... that would be genius...
     
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  20. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United
    Aug 3, 2000
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    The keeper was one substitution. You have 3. Coaches are paid to make good decisions. Pekerman failed.
     
  21. btlove

    btlove Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 29, 2017
    #46 btlove, Sep 16, 2019 at 4:33 AM
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019 at 4:40 AM
    So what’s your point here exactly? Pekerman made a bad substitution 13 years ago so he was never a good choice for USMNT? Because Berhalter has made questionable lineup/subs literally every game he has coached for us. Seems like you are just trying to justify Berhalter and the hiring process but even if that game was as bad as you say (hint: it wasn’t) it is still not justification.

    “Coaches are paid to make good decisions”
    You have to wonder if Pekerman’s decisions would include moving his best player to accommodate Trapp and Bradley, playing Lovitz at left back, and forcing keepers with bad feet to play out the back.
     
  22. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    You know and I know that Messi wasn't being used consistently at all throughout the tournament. He was a third energy/looking for a goal sub, not a first guy off the bench.

    I don't disagree w/you that that thinking was flat out stupid, but he had also had the best team in the tournament through 4 games, and nearly everything was clicking, which tends to breed overconfidence. I think the keeper issue had a domino effect on everything. I would've used Messi, so would you, so would probably every Argentine fan. He erred too much on veteranness, but I still think there's no problem if the goalie doesn't get hurt (then again we get the "if my aunt had cojones she'd be my uncle" cliche).
     
  23. Chaliaaaj

    Chaliaaaj Member

    Argentinos Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 21, 2018
    Pekerman's teams always play well and at a youth level his teams were amazing. With Argentina he messed up and got knocked out by penalties. If Argentina would've held on to a 1-0 lead, he would've been a genius.
     
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  24. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought he was OK with Colombia but thought they could have done better. Same thing I think of with Tata who also didn't win with Argentina when he had Messi. Question is is it Messi or can no coach figure out how to use him with the rest of Argentina's players?
     
  25. Burr

    Burr Member+

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Jul 8, 2014
    Tampa, FL
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tata got them to two finals where Chile played cynically and destroyed the game to get to penalties where they won a couple coin flips. If Higuain wasn't such a choker they win at least one of those, not to mention the World Cup with Sabella. That's not to say Argentina haven't had some god awful managers making absurd decisions within that period.
     
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