Pedro Collision

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Rufusabc, Jul 24, 2017.

  1. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004



    I know we probably have had this punch discussion before, but how is this not SFP, PK and a dismissal. Why is it the fault of the attacker?

    Btw, the foul was called going out!
     
  2. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And the mythos of the untouchable keeper continues. Sad.
     
    BTFOOM repped this.
  3. BTFOOM

    BTFOOM Member+

    Apr 5, 2004
    MD, USA
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    First, in a pre-season friendly, this type of action should NEVER happen.l Players should have more respect for each other.

    As for this play, it is absolutely SFP, PK, and send-off. I understand that the goalie is usually overly protected in 50/50 balls, but this should not be one of those times. Crazy by the GK and needs to be punished.
     
    RespectTheGame and fairplayforlife repped this.
  4. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    Is this any different than the Neuer-Higuain collision?
     
  5. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    It could be argued that the contact here is more directly to do with a play on the ball, vs. a protective use of blunt instrument knee
     
  6. tomek75

    tomek75 Member+

    Aug 13, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK, this is going to be a very unpopular opinion, but here it goes. The GK played the ball fairly but very stupidly. The attacker was not looking where he was going, he was tracking the ball in the air. The whole situation was compounded by the fact that the attacker bounced off of the defender in the worse possible moment that put him in the GK path. Yes the play looked ugly, and I feel bad for the attacker, but in my opinion the call on the pitch was correct.
     
    uws22 repped this.
  7. Thug Mentality

    May 30, 2011

    no.
     
  8. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    The reality is that apart from us on this forum and Paul Gardner of Soccer America and us on this forum, no one else has an expectation that it should be a foul. No one else thinks that there is something wrong with this play.

    https://www.socceramerica.com/article/73103/violent-goalkeeping-part-1-players-at-risk-as-s.html

    https://www.socceramerica.com/article/73105/violent-goalkeeping-part-2-fifa-must-radically.html

    Nothing will change until there is actually some instruction from the top on how to deal with this play. Has anyone actually seen a module at any clinic that exclusively focused on goal keeper challenges?

    Until FIFA/IFAB make it a point of emphasis that this is not okay, then it will never be called at the highest levels.
     
    IASocFan, MassachusettsRef and Rufusabc repped this.
  9. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How do you feel about the keeper's elbow striking the opponent's head?
     
  10. tomek75

    tomek75 Member+

    Aug 13, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    First of all, it is not a strike to the head. There is contact with the arm to the head but it does not qualify as a strike. The GK is in the process of playing the ball with his hands, as they are trained to do. The GK gets the ball and the Attacker while in the process of trying to leap over the defender gets bounced off of the defender toward the oncoming GK. As I stated before, in my opinion the GK made a stupid play but there is no malicious intent. It's unfortunate that the attacker got injured by not paying attention to his surroundings.
     
    uws22 repped this.
  11. camconcay

    camconcay Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Feb 17, 2011
    Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can go with some of "at this level" for this play and not question how a FIFA referee handled this in a professional very high level match however any tackle or attempt to "get the ball" can be clean, careless, reckless, or endanger the safety of an opponent whether they "get the ball" or not. This was at the least reckless on the part of the keeper and in my opinion clearly endangered the safety of his opponent.

    Intent, whether malicious or not, doesn't enter into it. The attacker intended to win the ball and score - are we going to award a goal because that was his intent?
     
    JeffG and threeputzzz repped this.
  12. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think those last two words say all that is needed to be evidence of at least being reckless here.
     
    msilverstein47 repped this.
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While I would quibble with "no one else" because I think we are starting to see the evolution in the head injury era, this post is largely correct on the grand scale as it relates to high-level matches. The next to last paragraph in particular is dead on.

    There are unfortunate accidents that occur with goalkeepers and there are going to be bad injuries that are not due to a foul. In this case, there is an element of truth to the assertion above that the attacker got bumped into the worst possible path due to contact with the other defender. Regardless, the goalkeeper' actions are reckless at minimum and I think (even without specific instruction) given the result a PK and at least a caution is the proper call. What constitutes "excessive force" and SFP in situations like this is harder to determine because everyone here is pursuing the ball at speed. I'm not saying it shouldn't be red, but before we get there on this particular play, we probably need the instruction that RS91 talks about above.
     
    Rufusabc and Law5 repped this.
  14. chwmy

    chwmy Member+

    Feb 27, 2010
    There was a play in the gold cup tonight: loose ball in the Jamaican goal mouth, American attacker takes a full swing at a ball as the gk moves his arms to smother, and makes the save. The full swing meant that the gk's hand was damaged. Did the attacker use excessive force? The injury to the gk, to me, was horrifyingly inevitable. Any attacker worth his salt will do that every time, hoping to blast the ball through the relative weakness/porosity of the gk's hands.

    I'm not drawing parallels between this event and the Pedro collision, except to point out that the particular dangers of gk vs field player challenges often have to do with asymmetry: feet vs hands, hands vs heads. Being a gk is inherently dangerous. Challenging a gk in certain situations is inherently dangerous.

    As for instruction, I feel like I am getting a message here: I've never, ever seen a foul called on a gk who went out and made a successful punch, no matter what the aftermath was. I've never, ever seen an attacker called for kicking straight through a gk's arms as long as he got the ball first, no matter how often the gk gets injured. So, I guess it's ok. I mean, what else am I supposed to think?
     
    Thezzaruz repped this.
  15. Geko

    Geko Member

    Sacremento Geckos
    United States
    May 25, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not that this should be the decision making process for us, but if 22 players on the field are expecting that this is just a good, hard, but incredibly unfortunate play, then there isn't too much to worry about whether or not the call was correct at the time.

    Granted, this is just a few steps away from turning into gridiron football and the concussions that are associated with it, but maybe the concern should just be "Is there a way to change the laws to prevent this?". Not 1 player reprimands Ospina for his challenge, though. None of the Chelsea players even give him a "What were you thinking?" look. I don't think the Neuer challenge is the same thing, though. That was a man leading with a knee at 2 meters in the air.
     
  16. IASocFan

    IASocFan Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2000
    IOWA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From the camera angle, it looks like the keeper got all ball and the attacker ran into the keeper's arm. I sure the CR had a better view, but I got nothing from the clip.
     

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