PDL vs. NPSL

Discussion in 'United Soccer Leagues' started by olujosh, Feb 3, 2007.

  1. olujosh

    olujosh Member

    Aug 23, 1999
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Country:
    United States
    I never do... I have too many fantasies about how american soccer could be run that will never happen.
     
  2. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    Italy
    good group.
     
  3. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Country:
    United States
    As the NPSL gets higher standards, it is more likely that PDL clubs will switch sides to save money.
     
  4. pcrow

    pcrow New Member

    Feb 24, 2006
    WA
    I would hate to see NPSL and PDL combine, just because PDL is a developmental league with age restrictions and all. Its nice that there is one league with a substantial presence in the west and midwest that allows you to field as good of a team as possible and gives elite players out of college an option to continue playing competitively. NPSL merging with PDL would be a disaster unless PDL did away with the 'developmental' in its title or split into 2 divisions- 1 with age restrictions and 1 without. Or attempt to make USL2 a national league again.
     
  5. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    Italy
    The Chico Rooks started in the USL/PDL I believe then they swithced and now they are on hiatus from both. What I want to know is if the SJ Frogs were in the NPSL why the switch to the PDL? Is the NPSL or the PDL a higher league or is the NPSL just less prestigious and less expensive to play in? I'm sure the level of play is the same and the players probably all come from the same area high schools and colleges.
     
  6. olujosh

    olujosh Member

    Aug 23, 1999
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Country:
    United States
    I'd like to see the USL-2 become national...I think there is a place for the USL-2. Some people say, "just get rid of it and make the USL-1 and 2 into one league"...but I think that the USL-2 is ideal for clubs that exist in smaller markets. A team like Western Mass is a great example. They want to have a professional team to sit at the top of their youth system (which I think is important), and they can have that without having to compete with (and travel to) huge spenders like Rochester and Vancouver etc.
     
  7. jeffconn

    jeffconn Member

    Jul 25, 2004
    Norfolk, VA, USA
    Club:
    Hampton Roads Piranhas
    Country:
    United States

    Nice idea, mandrake. i believe Oursportscentral.com does something similar with MLS, USL-1, and USL-2. As for adding all the college teams, and statewide amateur league clubs, like FESL, that should probably be done at the state level. I had the thought of making a Virginia/DC soccer Google map, with all the MLS, USL, and WPSL men's and women's clubs, college teams, and the premiere youth and amateur clubs. Unfortunately, i'm HTML intolerant. ;)
     
  8. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Country:
    United States
    I think that was covered on page 1 of the thread.

    Rooks owners were part of the initial group of owners to form the MPSL, which is now the NPSL.

    Frogs left because some teams forfeited games or no showed or something like that in the NPSL. I am pretty sure the same stuff has happened in the USL/USISL in previous years.

    NPSL needs to have a centralized office and much better website.
     
  9. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    Italy
    Actually, when I look at the list of defunct USL teams, its incrdible.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USL_First_Division
    The trouble with making these leagues national or cross country is this country is just too big for that. I mean the 3rd divisions (or the equivalent to a USL-2) in Europe normally are regional competitions. The countries are not that big and usually, when you travel 4-5 hours you are playing in a 1st or 2nd division. I think what the USL & the USSF should do is divide the country up like they do with their youth competitions. Maybe get every state and/or territory to have their own regional leagues and have a round robin championship. The way its stands now, the USL-2 is mostly a regional league as all the clubs are not all that distantly far from one another, unless you count Bermuda. The trouble remains however, that the USL-1 is a national league but still has quite a bit of travel involved with not much money behind it. It must be working as the league continues to survive but for how much longer can they endure all the costs travel and what have you?

    As far as the colleges are concerned, it took a while before they let the college teams compete in the (what was the SISL) USL. I know BYU played in the PDL but maybe college players and/or alumni should organize that each NCAA school team remain together year round and organize a club/PDL or NPSL team and keep them together on a year in and year out basis.
     
  10. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Country:
    United States
    A larger USL2 would be a wonderful addition to the American Soccer Pyramid.

    But a National USL2 would not work. Multiple regional USL2 could. Think about it, right now USL2 covers from New England to Carolina, from Ohio to Bermuda. No teams south of Charlotte, no teams west of Cinncannati. Thats a tight area. What if there was a USL2 West Coast Conference? A USL2 Texas division?

    It would be great!
     
  11. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    United States
    There used to be, back when it was called D3.

    D3 Western Division membership in 1998:

    Arizona Sahuaros
    Chico Rooks
    Stanislaus County Cruisers
    Los Angeles Fireballs
    San Fernando Valley Golden Eagles
    Reno Rattlers

    South Central Divison in 1998:

    Austin Lone Stars
    Texas Toros
    San Antonio Pumas
    Tulsa Roughnecks
    Houston Hurricanes
    Shreveport/Bossier Lions
     
  12. olujosh

    olujosh Member

    Aug 23, 1999
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Country:
    United States
    Couldn't agree more....regional USL-2....that's the way they should go.
     
  13. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    Italy
    Therefore, I have a feeling a PDL will one day be structured into a 2nd regional division. In another words. USL 2A , 2B, 2C & 2D.
    Italy has something similar to this. They have a C1 & C2 so its a 3rd & 4th division and its split into two, three or four groups. If you look at the geographics, you will see the distance is not all that far from other teams.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serie_C2#Serie_C2_Clubs_.282006.2F07.29
     
  14. ButlerBob

    ButlerBob Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    Evanston, IL
    Club:
    DC United
    Country:
    United States
    At some point I think you could see some of the PDL teams move up to the pro level and idealy USL 2. However, I don't think the vast majority of the PDL teams are equipped either organziationally or financially to make that move. Also, currently the both the PDL and NPSL leagues are really just national regional leagues. The vast majority of league games are played within the region. Some of the regions have more teams then others and this effects travel costs.

    Back to the topic of the thread. To me organizationally the PDL has a stronger central orgaization then the NPSL. And to a certain extent this was one of the reasons the MPSL/NPSL was formed. Because they got tired of being led by a central office on the other side of the country. As much as I would like a lower price point to entry into the PDL, I think it serves a vaulable purpose. It helps to weed out the groups that don't fully think through and plan out what they are going to do. If you pay more into to something, your commitment level is usually higher. You'll get less of the groups that I like to refer to as "the high school kids that are going to put on a broadway show in the barn". Those groups are going to just try to throw something together and not plan things, miss games, and drop out early.

    I agree with Josh that at some time in the future, a two tiered PDL would make sense. But not sure if we have the numbers at this time to do it. And maybe since some of the groups that founded the MPSL/NPSL (Chico, Arizona) have left, maybe a merger really isn't that far fetched. But overall, I see the PDL becoming two types ownership groups. One is the large youth club that see it as another extension of their organization and growth step for their players. And the other group that views it as a stepping stone to running / owning a professional soccer team.
     
  15. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Country:
    United States
    Regional USL 1 might be a good idea as well.
     
  16. olujosh

    olujosh Member

    Aug 23, 1999
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Country:
    United States
    I wouldn't be opposed....when I've asked the USL about this in the past, what I've heard most often is that then Portland fans would never see Rochester..(which is pretty much the way it is now anyway....I think ROCH has made ONE or TWO west coast trips in the last 10 years...ask the Timbers die hards about that, they'll tell ya)...

    But my thing is this...aside from a team like Miami FC signing Romario...how much of an additional draw is a team like Rochester or Charleston or Virginia Beach? I mean, I know that variety is important when you don't have a big league...but if the USL-1 was to grow where there were 20+ teams...I can't see why that would be a problem to regionalize it.
     
  17. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    Italy
    Was Romario & Zihno much of a draw in Miami or on the road? I mean I saw their home attendance and it was only 2k a match. Shouldn't it have been more for 2 WC94 champions?
     
  18. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Country:
    United States
    Are any teams really "road draws" in the USL?

    I could see the Rochester v Montreal game having some appeal, but with the distances so great for most of the teams, it should be that big a deal.

    What would be a big deal is if they could get the USL 1 (A-League) up to 24 teams, playing regional schedules to keep travel down.

    Top 4 teams in each conference play for the conference title, and top 2 teams meet in the USL Cup.

    I also think the USL should have its own Cup competition for all its teams. The Francisco Marcos Cup.
     
  19. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    Italy
    I the think the Pacific Northwest has some rivalries which seem pretty healthy in Portland, Seattle & Vancouver which date back to the NASL. Their attendances aren't all that high however, they aren't that bad either considering USL standards. With Portland at 5,575, Vancouver at 5,085 & Seattle at 3,826. When you look at Toronto's USL situation, the Lynx average attendance was only 1,732. As soon as they got an MLS team however, their season ticket sales are so far at 12,000 and they have not even played a match yet. You wonder what would happen if the Timbers, Sounders and the Whitecaps went to the MLS, what their attendance would jump up to? I think if they all had a committed SSS and/or ownership group you could see some pretty interesting teams up in the Pacific Northwest.
     
    Matthew Johnson repped this.
  20. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Country:
    United States
    That's similar to Rochester- Montreal. Easy to drive, but when you are talking Seattle v Montreal, how many away fans do you get? None.

    Where the USL is the big fish in town, teams are usually well supported.

    They might be better supported if they actually had a sales staff, but that's another discussion altogether.
     
  21. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    Italy
    I'm not sure. I wouldn't think it would be that many fans although Montreal has been averaging over 11k a year attendance wise which is pretty good. Until recently, I don't think MLS numbers went thru the roof when the Rapids came to town either. At least Colorado is now getting their own SSS so that will definitely help their home attendance.
    You may get a Canadian rivalry with Vancouver-Montreal but I don't know how much. When I look at Montreal, I wonder why they wouldn't want to consider a jump to the MLS with their avg att. They could probably do even better than Toronto. Someday I think Montreal, Rochester , Seattle and Vancouver will all be included in the MLS. Whether we agree with the MLS or not, one good thing about the MLS is even if the league were to fold, the SSS will still be there and someone sooner or later will want to play in those stadiums sooner or later especially if they aren't being used.
     
  22. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Country:
    United States

    I'm not sure you are agreeing with me or not, but what I'm saying is the fact that fans in Seattle don't get to see Montreal or Rochester should not be a reason for the USL not to attempt to regionalize when they have sufficient teams.
     
  23. olujosh

    olujosh Member

    Aug 23, 1999
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Country:
    United States
    I know that USL fans don't want to admit it, but when Portland and Seattle and Vancouver get MLS franchises (I'm sure it will happen someday)....the ticket sales will skyrocket, much like Toronto's did. While I think it's unfortunate that USL-1 teams can't be considered "major league", but I think the average fan is aware of the fact that there IS another level higher...

    Portland and Vancouver have great history and a great fan base, and the fact that they are in the Pacific NW makes them even more attractive to MLS. Only a matter of time.
     
  24. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    Italy
    I wasn't disagreeing with you. I actually agree but I doubt the USL will be a regional outfit anytime soon. Although becuase of the size of this country, it should be.
     
  25. olujosh

    olujosh Member

    Aug 23, 1999
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Country:
    United States
    What's wrong with being regional? I mean...it's still a national league if the teams only play teams in their region. What about the American League and National League of Major League Baseball? Back in the day, the only time the two leagues played each other was in the championship game. Why couldn't the USL do that?
     

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