PBP Thread: France vs Peru, 21 June 2018 [R]

Cueva missed that penalty, but that mistake doesn't define him. It's like saying that Gareca is a bad coach because he included Guerrero, when everybody were questioning Gareca for not using him in the first match. Alas, Gareca knew Guerrero wasn't in good shape, and we all confirmed it in the match to France.

Anyways, it is the presence of Advíncula and Cueva –in the vicinity– what makes Carrillo that difficult to stop. Farfán is different, trained as a European most of his career, he's more concerned in his position and less in associations and defensive solidarity.

The discussion was really if Peru could afford two players (Guerrero and Farfán) not working on ball recovery and fast associations. Till months ago, Guerrero was excellent in associations, but since his return it seemed as if he wanted to carry the ball inside the rival's goal, or he was too slow on thinking and reactions.

And the nail in the coffin was Ruidíaz. I don't think a forward can be effective at this level by running away from physical contact.

For what is worth, by 2015 few to no one thought Gareca had time to assemble a team for this WC, and the whole WCq was regarded as a testing lab. It turned out Gareca's optimism (to qualify) was justified, and we can take this WC participation as further experimentation towards the next cycle.

So let's hope Brazil wins this WC (or Argentina pulling a miracle), so we get an extra qualifying slot in Conmebol.

At any rate, it's clear Peru's back

 

What do you mean by associations?

 

To and fro passing. In Spanish called “paredes” (walls).

 

This (characteristic of Peru since forever):

 

Recycling. Possession here I think we would say

Very technical players and good passers

Cueva play in Europe?

 

Cueva plays in Sao Paulo, Brazil.

You may say he's the typical example of the problems Peru has had to raise professional players. He didn't receive a proper training since he was a teen, and was discovered casually by a team from the capital when it went to his town to play an exhibition match. He was hired right away, but soon after he disappeared from the concentration: It turned out he went back home, because the families in his town had an annual football competition... and the prize was a bull.

Because this lack of training during his youth, his development came a bit later. Nonetheless, the skills are there:



After playing in Chile and Mexico, he understood better what tactics and team play mean, and focused his skills once he reached Brazil:



As Cueva, most don't (or maybe didn't) believe they're pretty good, and go after whatever comes in front of them, rather than raising themselves as true professionals. And that's why this group loves Gareca: He convinced them they could reach higher.

 

I was going to make an unfunny joke about Peru having to go home still without beating a European team in Europe but them having at least another 12 years to fix that before they have to worry about it again. I was then looking to try to find the last time they did it. I ended up going so far back that I thought I must have made a mistake.
So when was the actual last time Peru beat a European team in Europe? Friendlies are fine.

 

Peru hardly has played European NTs in Europe. For that matter, Peru never lost to any European side, including World Champions, in South America. But has defeated France and drew with Italy in '82.

I suppose it's my turn now: When was the last time Australia got a result (draws in friendlies are okay too) against a decent side without parking the bus?

 

Peru hasn’t beat an European NT in Europe even in friendlies since 1982? That’s shocking.

 

Now its my turn. We don't park the bus, never have. There are games when we get totally dominated and it looks like we are, but we never do it as a tactic. As for results against decent teams I'll stick with competitive matches. There is a 2-1 win over Serbia in 2010 (Serbia won a group including France). If you want to include draws then there is 2-2 draw with Croatia (also a group winner that time) in 2006. Counting friendlies from the last 2 world cup cycles there is a win and a draw against Germany. Having watched all those games we didn't "park the bus" or resort to time wasting tactics in any of them. Perhaps you can provide an example of when we did this, or is your definition of parking the bus playing a 4 man backline and maintaining a good formation in defence which pretty much every decent side does.

 

I thought Australia have been decent this World Cup, especially their second game

Mooy stood out in midfield for sure

 

How about a draw at a WC against Denmark 3 days ago. They’re in the top 20 so decent. Australia had more possession and shots. Or against Chile at the confed Cup. They were top 10 at that stage. Aus had over 45% possession and over 10 shots so that’s not bus parking. Australia have never really been a Bus parking team. There was a 2-2 draw against Germany in Germany since the last World Cup and a 2-1 win in Germany a few years before that.
Since Peru last beat a European in Europe, Australia has beaten in Europe Germany, Netherlands, England, Wales, Ireland, Czech Rep., Hungary x3, Israel and some smaller teams.

 

Ah, then all eleven players inside their own box count for nothing. Because you say so. By the way, possession with backward passes inside the own half counts for nothing.

Thing is, Australia is one of those sides that cares more for not making the ridicule than playing good football. I think that's okay, considering its limitations and lack of development... but from there to make mockery of a South American side? Are you kidding me? We all know Australia switched confederations because, in Oceania, it had a play–off against a Conmebol NT, so you rather travel +100 thousand miles than playing to a South American again.

Now, if Peru hasn't won in Europe since 1982 is because Peru hasn't played in Europe in decades. After '82, there were two matches in 2014. Then again, why should we? It's not like we get a "democratic" slot in WCs: We have to play against three World Champions 2–3 times every four years, and certainly not in friendlies. So playing 2nd–3rd tiers in Europe helps nothing.

And you know what is the most amusing thing of all this? On the next match, despite Australia having to win to dream with a chance, we can fully expect a 5–5 formation from it, hoping for a counter–attack or a set–piece. Because is either that or getting trashed.

 

No matches but two in 2014 and one this year.

And is no wonder. If a NT doesn't qualify for the WC, most assume is as weak as those which also don't in their own zone; then no European first tier was interested in playing against Peru.

Anyways, there are friendlies in September to Netherlands and Germany, and I don't expect to see them playing in their own half, as Iceland, Scotland, Sweden and Denmark did this year.

 

I know you are hurting because your team played well but lost. If belittling Australia's efforts make you feel better then go ahead, but don't forget that from the 1986 world cup to the 2014 world cup Peru attempted to qualify through South America 8 times and failed each time. Australia had a world cup path through South America 4 times in that period and qualified once (two playoff losses, the other time we didn't get as far as the playoff). In simple truth, our record in international football over the last 30 years is better than yours, even though neither is particularly impressive. I know it, you know it, and so does everyone else. Luckily for you the next game isn't decided on historical records so you still have a chance. You may even score a goal, as even though you think you are playing a team that parks the bus, its also a team that hasn't kept a clean sheet in a world cup since 1974 (11 matches now).

 

It's not belittle, but proper response to someone using statistics (no wins over Europeans in Europe) to belittle Peru.

Also, how is that of better statistics? Peru has 2 quarter–finals in WCs, 2 Copas America and, as of late, 3rd place in 2011 and 2015. Besides, Peru has eliminated both Uruguay and Argentina from WCs, and not by accident or by parking the bus (as "someone" did to Uruguay).

Then, is not feelings but someone's lack of information on Peru's records, and assuming that a side which doesn't qualify in South America is at the same level as those that don't in other confederations.

Now, to be clear, it's not to belittle the efforts from a side who's making good progress during the past decades. But if someone wishes to make mockery because a couple of bad results, or even say that Australia is better (just because it qualifies from zones whose representatives hardly if ever reach quarter–finals), then I think is valid to put things straight.

 

IIRC, Peru and Bolivia are the two teams from South America that never play in Europe mainly due to lack of funds.

 

I don't know about Bolivia, but Peru has tried to arrange friendlies for years against the better European sides, to no avail. Oblitas said that none were interested in playing Peru. By the way, I forgot about a friendly to Spain in 2004 (2–1).

But when there's money, you can see Saudi Arabia playing Italy and Germany

Anyways, it isn't a thing for Peru only. Colombia has decades trying to arrange a friendly with Germany, and nothing. Colombia's sport press was complaining when they found out Peru was to play Germany in a friendly

 

I think you’re being too reactive and unfair to Australia - their WC06 team was pretty good and did not play to park the bus, eliminating Uruguay, Croatia and Japan to reach the knockout rounds of the tournament.

Australia has great upside but they should leave the British football influence behind for a more dynamic style.

 

At present times, WC Champs, don't give extra spots to their Confeds. They don't get automatic spots neither.
More so, they must play qualifiers, the same as every other team from their Confed, to qualify for next WC.

Wishful thinking is for free, but never a certainty.
Don't count on Bolivia once again fielding an ineligible player

Besides, there are others in Conmebol (including the current champions of Conmebol among them), that might have their say as well, which will not make it easier for your team.

For real, only the future will tell.

 

Perú played 60 minutes with Guerrero at bench, created many chances but the shooting were too soft and directly to the keeper, who was MotM.

I don't know why, but most of the players looked unconfident or nervous when seeing themselves in front of a goalscoring chance.

 

From my mind, also a friendly with Netherlands at 1997.

But the point still remains, since 1982 it was 15 years, since 1997 it was 7 years and then 10 years.

We have a bad record in Europe, but playing 1 game every 10 years and facing good opposition, Holland-1997, Spain-2004, England & Swiss-2014

 

"Too reactive". Then as Peru failed to score in two matches (lets forget the other +30 this team has played together), not only is at the same level as Australia, but below it. Because that's what that pal implied by using the results against European sides in Europe, and their draw to Denmark.

There are very few teams in this WC who can't defeat or draw a favorite... on a good day. Australia isn't one of them. I refused to take their results and level of play before the WC to draw predictions. Clearly, they can get a result. But that's different to claim to be better at football.

 

So you're saying that the defending World Champion has to play the next WCq. Do you have a source for that?

I count on referees no favoring a side, that's good enough. And on having a team with an idea, which also seems to work on the long run.

That said, Ecuador, Paraguay and Chile had a higher level than several which qualified to this WC from other confederations. So we know it won't be easy to qualify again. But, at this point, Peru has the advantage over them. It remains to be seen if Peru can make something out of it, as there are examples of sides who didn't know how.

 

Yes 100 %