"Pay for Play"

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by soccermilitant, Oct 15, 2017.

  1. soccermilitant

    soccermilitant Member+

    Jan 14, 2009
    St.paul
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    People keep saying get rid of so-called "pay for play" but who will pay the bills or these clubs then? I mean us soccer fans were beating are chest for years that theres need to be an academy system well an academy system is expensive. Hell most sports are expensive there just mostly subsides buy the taxpayers .
     
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  2. eainterplay

    eainterplay Member

    May 11, 2008
    Alabama
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, I can't see an easy fix for this one. Unlike a place like Iceland or almost any other European country, a central academy system is not viable in the U.S. because of our geographical size. Plus, we have already tried that with Bradenton and it had mixed results.

    MLS clubs have made an effort to establish academies for youth development in recent times, so we will see how effective they are in the next few years.

    Sadly, like basketball and football, the only real way to end pay to play is for the sport to become popular enough that there is a real monetary incentive to develop the best young players.
     
  3. soccermilitant

    soccermilitant Member+

    Jan 14, 2009
    St.paul
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    and those academies are costing the owners MILLIONs . Why do you think they have there development systems in taxpayer funded education institutions?
     
  4. eainterplay

    eainterplay Member

    May 11, 2008
    Alabama
    Club:
    Rangers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly, the money is just not there from any one source. That's honestly why I think our best development moving forward will be from European clubs because they have the infrastructure and resources to develop youngsters.

    Honestly, I view US Soccer similar to basketball in Canada. There is a ton of talent in Canada, but the coaching and opportunities for players is abysmal. However, Canada is improving its basketball program faster than the US is improving its soccer program.
     
  5. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    #5 Fighting Illini, Oct 15, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
    Transfer fees pay the bills for youth academies. You develop a player, that's a valuable asset you can cash in. MLS is built to eliminate transfer fees. Therein lies the problem.

    One potential avenue for growth might be USL or other lower-tier sides developing youth and selling to MLS in volume. That's tough though for small teams without much in the way of startup capital.

    MLS has the money, but not the incentive. Other actors in the system have the incentive, but not the money (and other barriers to liquidity in player value as well). It's a tough one.
     
  6. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Some financial help could come from Public school funding in the form of Public charter schools. It could not be for the sole purpose of establishing a soccer academy, but it could be something you did if you were educating the kids too.

    Who you play games against would be tricky in smaller areas, so you would likely still have considerable travel expenses, but at least in larger urban areas you could appeal to an unserved market. If you had a high percentage of ESL students then so much the better. If you did a good job of producing high test scores, then the funding for the education side would continue.

    It would not pay for all the extra soccer stuff, but it would cover some of it. There is money in a "not for profit" school, or they would not be popping up all over the country.

    Unfortunately there would be great deal of time, planning, and expertise required to pull off such a project. People with those capabilities are making big money and seldom inclined to undertake such an enormous project gratis.
     
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  7. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    I think part of it we can look at pay for play for what it often is. A chance to milk money out of parents vicariously living through their kids in the hopes of playing in college. It benefits the clubs and USSF through their fees but doesn't advance quality with respect to the cost.
     
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  8. Winoman

    Winoman Drinkin' Wine Spo-De-O-De!

    Jul 26, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gacm32, Eighteen Alpha and Bajoro repped this.
  9. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    Having read around in the past few weeks, and not being an expert by any means, my feeling is we need to focus on better youth coaching rather than more players. Although i should say, by better coaching, I also mean, in some ways, less (overbearing) coaching.
     
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  10. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    “Pay for play” is one of the biggest red herring complaints in US soccer.

    There’s always going to be a cost. If you want to put money toward something in youth development across the country, lower the cost of coaching badges. We need quality coaching more than we need to expand youth participation.
     
  11. Cubanlix63

    Cubanlix63 Member+

    AFC Ajax
    Feb 19, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Pay to play will always hinder us but, it will be basically impossible to get rid of. It is even an issue in more popular sports like Basketball and Baseball.
     
  12. Bajoro

    Bajoro Member+

    Sep 10, 2000
    The Inland Empire
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm like you -- not an expert in this topic by any means. A couple of thoughts I've read from others over the past couple weeks include:
    1 - your point about better coaching
    2 - less emphasis on travel and more on "playing up"
    3 - maybe if MLS were not organized as a single-entity, the individual clubs would have more incentive to develop youth
     
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  13. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    US Soccer goes into their coffers where they are claiming they've gotten big windfalls for in the past and they fund regional football centers in areas that aren't being serviced by MLS and their affiliates.

    Speaking of which, I think you go to MLS and convince them for their own interests, and the national team's, which in turn also has a knock-on effect for them (since that's where popularity of the sport in this country is going to be mainly tied to), that they need an academy for every MLS team + a minor league club that they strategically locate about 100-200 miles away so they can scout and provide opportunities to the players in their area. After USS finds out these locations, they plop down their regional playing centers. Kids could play each other there or travel a bit to compete with the closest regional center's. Maybe at the end you have a mini tournament to crown the best playing center nationally. Players develop from these experiences and can get noticed by MLS or overseas.

    All the entities involved have an incentive to find and develop talent on the cheap and for depth of their pools, so there should be no problem in having expenses for players paid. If there is, then they are tremendously short-sighted.
     
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  14. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    American business entities being shortsighted about short term profits verse long term benefits? Say it ain't so...
     
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  15. Goldtone

    Goldtone Member+

    Aug 8, 2013
    California
    Club:
    Udinese Calcio
    US Soccer’s $100 million surplus is a good place to start in setting up scouts for inner cities and rural areas that would have less access to academies. No one is arguing there is not a lot of untapped talent that is playing “unorganized” soccer out there. But no one is doing anything about it.
     
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  16. Winoman

    Winoman Drinkin' Wine Spo-De-O-De!

    Jul 26, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    *plonk*
     
  17. Fiosfan

    Fiosfan Red Card

    Mar 21, 2010
    Nevada
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey I just noticed you from the swamp , ok you get a free out of jail card son.
     
  18. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    AAU basketball teams have lucrative deals with shoe companies. It's enough for greedy coaches to take some off the top and still provide scholarships. Of course that's it's own bucket of worms.
     
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  19. Cubanlix63

    Cubanlix63 Member+

    AFC Ajax
    Feb 19, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Only some of the elite AAU programs have shoe sponsorships the rest have to make by like Club Soccer teams do. And I think the fact that almost all of the recent basketball phenoms are either upper middle class kids or the sons of former NBA players shows that pay to play is starting to have an effect there too.
     
  20. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Absolutely, positively, x10.
     
  21. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wonder why the badges are so expensive..
     
  22. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    $1.5K to several thousand a year is a red herring?

    The DFB spent hundreds of millions to 'teach the teachers' and lower the cost.
     
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  23. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I am by no means well educated on this pay for play but I have some questions for the experts.

    I always read that there is talent out there in areas where no one scouts. So if a talent is found, lets say a 13-16 boy, in an area where an Academy is several hours away, how exactly is that kid supposed to join the academy? Does the parent just hand him over to the club? Does the parents have to move with the kid? Who pays for all of the travel fees, food etc? Does the club have to come to the kids hometown to train him? How does it all work in scenarios where a kid lives in a area where no one scouts?
     
  24. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    In a country with basically one national sport, the size of 1/25th of the US and with 1/6th the population*

    *(Guesses)

    And yes. Youth participation isn’t the issue. Proper coaching at the younger age groups is. You could make every league free tomorrow, but now you have a few thousand more kids being coached by people who have no idea what they’re doing who think “First Touch” was their prom theme.

    Or if you want to look at it another way, if you increase the supply of quality coaching, you decrease the need for players to need to play for one of the “elite” travelling or select clubs, because the playing field is a more level, and players at all levels are now being coached correctly and the quality of play rises.
     
  25. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy

    It's a red herring in that it distracts from the fixable problems. Everyone keeps saying eliminate pay for play yet I never see anyone come up with (1) a dollar amount for what it would take and (2) a plausible source for those dollars. And that's because to actually do that would show that you can't get rid of pay for play in this country.

    The fact that Germany spent "hundreds of million" on coaching education shows how large the problem is. Since we are starting from a lower level than Germany and are a large country, then we would need several hundreds of millions just for coaching and there isn't that much money around.
     
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