Patrick O'Brian Aubrey-Maturin series discussion [results]

Discussion in 'Books' started by bungadiri, Aug 2, 2008.

  1. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 25, 2002
    Acnestia
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    I started re-reading the series because of a long night spent in the ER and a few questions have occurred to me, mainly because of the indirect way O'Brian handles some major plot developments. I'd like to hear other readers' opinions.


    [Okay folks, I put the "results" warning in the thread title for a reason, so if you don't want to see spoilers, don't look below this line.]




    For example, in Fortune of War, Maturin feels he has fallen out of love with Diana. Does he ever come to love her again? I think so, but I'm not sure.

    Relatedly, I had not realized how superficial and naive Maturin's early, unrequited "love" for Diana was. I think O'Brian meant this to be the case. For all of Stephen's realism and insight in many other areas, he tended to mistake his prick for his heart and his heart for his prick where Diana was concerned.
     
  2. maturin

    maturin Member

    Jun 8, 2004
    I am currently on The Letter of Marque, so I don't know whether or not Stephen and Diana will be reconciled or not. I can say, though, that Stephen does not seem much troubled by Diana's departure with Jagiello at this point. I think that despite his physical fidelity, Laura Fielding had a real influence on him and I think that his experience with her has made him see Diana's flaws in a much clearer light.

    I may not read this thread again for a while for fear of having my enjoyment spoiled, but I'll check back when I've finished the series to see what others think.
     
  3. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator
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    Jan 25, 2002
    Acnestia
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    Well, when you get back to the thread...



    I think O Brian makes it pretty clear that there was nothing sexual going on between Jagiello and Diana at the end of that book. I don't think Jagiello would have had anything to do with that sort of thing, in any case. However, I do think O Brian reveals some real emotional connection with Diana during the recovery from his OD. I think that's as close as he comes to suggesting that the "broken mainspring" sensation that Maturin had when he felt he no longer loved her (and then, perversely, was finally able to marry her) had either been restored or replaced with something deeper.

    But O Brian is so indirect about these things that I'm not sure.
     
  4. eric_appleby

    eric_appleby Member+

    Jun 11, 1999
    Down East
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    I'm half way through the series, so I will not participate in the thread at this time. I've had to force myself to slow down on the reading. It's going to be a sad day when I'm finished.

    Fantastic literature. These books penetrate so many more levels than the Hornblower books, or any other of this genre. In fact , they may be the greatest historical novels ever written.
     
  5. maturin

    maturin Member

    Jun 8, 2004
    Three years later, and I'm through 20.

    I've come back to the thread to ask for advice about 21. I've heard it's not so good - thoughts? My uncle, the man who introduced me to these books, went so far as to say that if he had known how disappointing 21 would be, he'd have stopped after Blue at the Mizzen.

    The ending of Blue at the Mizzen was certainly not a closure to the saga, that much is clear. Has anybody here read 21 and care to offer some thoughts?
     
  6. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator
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    Jan 25, 2002
    Acnestia
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    Based on my experience with the hash made of Tolkien's uncompleted works, posthumously, and my respect for O Brian and the series as a whole, I never read 21. I haven't missed it. Plus, I kind of liked the inconclusive nature of the ending of Blue at the Mizzen, and I doubt if O Brian would have provided closure with any number of subsequent books.

    But I'm interested in the question you ask, too, and would like to hear someone else's opinion of 21.
     
  7. djangone

    djangone Member

    Sep 6, 2004
    Los Feliz
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    In Fortune of War, Stephen's mixed feelings for Diana are I think a state of his mind in that novel, not so much the state of his mind for all novels. You notice his turbulent feelings changing in every novel, but the settled state of affairs is that Diana is the great love of his life, unrequited most of the time. His fears act upon him, and he wavers, but he would never break from Diana completely.

    I've read the novels in total at least three times, some four times. Each time I come away with some new way of looking at the events in them. The land events are easily the best part of it all on this go-round, an Diana's part of it among the best of that (second only to Joseph Blaine). I understand the Diana situation differently this time, twelve years after reading it the first time, having been in Stephen's position recently. It's one of O'Brian's many unacknowledged acts of long-running literary genius to portray Stephen's affair with Diana as he has.

    You can look at it many ways. As foils: Stephen has Jack by sea, Diana by land (this is far too simple a reading, but I'm sure O'Brian thought of this). Diana is Stephen's dashing cutting-out expedition, to match what Jack does by sea; she's his Cacafuego. O'Brian encourages this read, by the way: Stephen gets involved in the cutting-out of the Diane in Letter of Marque, which he never does ordinarily, to foreshadow that later in the novel Stephen does his own 'cutting out' of Diana from Jagiello's estate in Sweden, though not without falling nearly to his death. When the Diane is wrecked in Java, it recalls that Jack could never 'handle' Diana herself in the third novel...and (spoiler alert) foreshadows what's to come with Diana herself. I could go on, but it'd take too much thought at a strange hour as I write this. I've just finished 'The Commodore,' and Diana welcomes Stephen back abruptly, almost in a way that O'Brian openly disdained--in that false Shakespearean 'tie up all loose ends' fashion, complete with deus ex machina. She's even in the south of Ireland, coincidentally. In early days, I think O'Brian looked at the land portions of the novels as ways to work out his Dickens and Austen fascinations, though he surely has ten other authors in mind, knowing O'Brian's literary depth. As the volumes progressed, his understanding of his characters matured, and fascinated him in ways he didn't expect at first. Diana as a mother? What would she do? Diana as a settled woman? I always wanted more Diana--who wouldn't? She's one of the better female characters in all literature even though she's neglected a bit in later novels, never again treated so fully as she is in Fortune of War, my favorite novel of the 21.

    Just to sum up, there's nothing I've found in literature to match Maturin's affair with Diana. It's a gift that never stops giving. We can all wish for the blessing and curse of a Diana. I've had mine, recently, and I hope with mine I have one tenth of Stephen's luck in years to come.

    As for the last novel, I gave 21 about 30 minutes before leaving it off. I could tell it was destined to disappoint.
     
  8. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    If you're a fan, the great bookdealer Edward R. Hamilton has the complete Aubrey-Maturin in a slipcased, five volume format for $124.95. With shipping and handling that would come to $128.45.

    http://www.edwardrhamilton.com/titles/7/4/8/7486189.html

    http://www.edwardrhamilton.com

    They only take orders through the mail, but with a $3.50 shipping and handling charge whether you buy one book or fifty, it's worth the wait.

    (I haven't read the books, but I am a fan of Edward R. Hamilton).
     

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