As a coach, I often tell my parents and players that there are four roles at a game: Parent/Coach/Player/Ref and that you are only allowed to be one of those during any one game. So here's my question. When you are a parent (spectator) do you correct others when you hear them spewing ignorance of the laws? Ex: Tuesday night, my u-15 son had a game. His team has a IDFK centered, 10 yards from the top of the PA. Player 1 roles the ball Player 2 rips it off of the cross bar. Player 3 buries the rebound. High school AR (parent side) raises flag. Waves off goal. After the game (2-2 draw) a parent is screaming about the flag and how the AR blew it. He incorrectly stated that because at the time of the shot, the AR's flag was not up, then that means no one was in an OSP and that they couldn't become offside on the rebound because they were behind the ball. I explain to him that he is wrong and that, mechanically, the AR did everything proper and that a player in an OSP is not flagged until he becomes involved. Here, the AR determined a player was in an OSP, but the rebound could have been played by anyone. If it was played by someone other than the PIOSP, the goa would have stood. I then explained that none of us at half field had the line to determine if he was actually PIOSP so go with the AR's judgment. He looked at me clearly disappointed that I took away his "excuse" for our team not winning. So, do you get involved in correcting ignorance? I tend to do it only when someone is actively spreading their ignorance. Thoughts?
If people ask respectably, and I have the time, I have no problem explaining things. If someone is just shouting out from the sideline, then I usually don't say anything. Although, I find with the Build Out line, people are looking for offside in between the build out lines. I usually do mention that is only offside after the line, like in hockey.
I too have a hard time containing myself in that sort of situation. When I do it, I never start with "I'm a referee and" (but then most of the people usually sitting around me know I'm a referee). I start with something like "Well, actually, ..." But like everything it depends on the situation. You have a sense of whether you can get away with it or not.
This isn't limited to youth games. I've done this, with varying levels of success, at Rapids games as well. In fact, I'm not the go to person in our section when people want to know WTF did the ref just do?
Depends on the parent obviously. If they are someone full of themselves and/or a difficult parent then probably not.
Now I know where I want to sit when and if I go back to a Rapids game this season. I think @Patrick167 has a good approach, though I usually tried to just go sit down at the end of the touchline and stay quiet. It's no longer an issue for me as my youngest is off to college....now when I go to a local (non-MLS) match, I am just a ref.
I've found that if you try to discuss a judgment call (was that contact a foul?) with someone, you're asking for trouble. I have corrected fellow parents (before I became a ref -- I just happened to, say, occasionally WATCH soccer, which these parents never did) that not all contact is a foul. These were parents I already knew (and liked), and they took the conversation well. Last week, after meeting with my local club's mentor for rec-league refs, I went to a couple of U9 games because I had never seen the buildout line and wanted to see it in action. As Rilo Kiley once sang, there was blood in my mouth from biting my tongue. These coaches, playing 7v7 for the first time, were clueless. One coach yelled out twice that the other team needed to contest a drop ball -- I actually tried to tell her otherwise, but she wasn't listening. One coach was storming up and down the line yelling at his team, in part because the other coach didn't realize he was supposed to be on the same sideline. The next game had a similar issue. This ref actually told both coaches they had to be on the same sideline, which surprised one coach. At the half, the coaches asked the ref if the teams were switching sides. Why yes, they are. So the coaches picked up their bags and exchanged places on the coaches' sideline.
I unfortunately had to deal with a situation like this last weekend. I'm center of U11 Boys match, "competitive" travel division. AR2 hasn't had the best game, tried to call offside on a goal kick and had a couple close OS calls, but he had the angle so I awarded them. Away coach generally not happy, but mostly with the AR. Earlier in the game I had a drop ball that the away team played back to the home keeper after my suggestion to do so (admittedly a mistake, should have kept my mouth shut, but home team was clearly in possession when I stopped play). Away team is now up 2-1, about 3 minutes left and there's another injury. This time ball was at the midline and no one had possession of the ball, so I say nothing about how the drop ball should be played. After the sub comes on I walk over to where I'm going to drop the ball, a home player joins me. There are about 3 away players within 5-10 yards and I ask "you ready green(away)?". I get no verbal response, but everyone is looking at me, in my opinion aware that play is about to start. I drop the ball and home player dribbles right through the three players and the play eventually leads to a goal. Away coach goes nut saying "You gave the ball right to them! You can't have a drop ball without two teams there!" I say, "That is not a requirement for a drop ball" and finish out the game. Game ends 2-2 a few minutes later and the away coach is still convinced that I cheated his team out of a win and won't drop it, claims that since away team played the last drop ball back to the keeper that the home team should have done the same for them. Probably should have pulled his coach card for his behavior post match, but had already handed them back and just wanted to be done with it. He asks for my name, says he will report me, and is "director" of the league. Also says I need to look up the rule on drop balls.
I have two friends, whose sons were playing on the same U-17 or thereabouts team. One is a long time high school varsity level coach and adult league player, a good and funny guy. The other is a National Emeritus Referee who used to play with the other guy on the same adult team. They would go to their sons' games and find some place where they could sit/stand away from the other parents, and calm each other down when untoward things happened on the field, whether caused by the referee crew or the coaches. That system worked for them. When my older daughter was playing high school JV, they were so dominant that none of the parents felt the need to complain about anything that happened on the field. (I don't remember that they lost a game in the three years she played.) When my son played, I think his coach was the only one there who knew I was a referee (since I had done his games when he was playing in the men's league). I did not feel the need to sit close enough to the other parents to hear what they had to say.
That' should have been I'm now the go to person (though there are a few fans who don't want me to explain how the ref was right ans the Rapids didn't get screwed).
Yeah I wish I had done it differently. I'm still a relatively new ref and incorrectly assumed that the away team was more aware of their right to challenge. Live and learn.
every Parent has known I am a ref, luckily I usually arrive at my kids right at kickoff because I am travelling from another earlier match. I sit off to the side and the back. If something happens and I feel the parents eyes upon me, I just say what I thought had happened and what the crew was probably thinking and let it go. I try not to engage in my kids team play because other coaches might see me and recognize me.
I would generally make a judgement call about whether the person involved actually wants to know what the rule is or just wants to be upset about what they think it is. A quite conversation is good with the former and silence is good for the latter. Based on what I've seen from parents at games, however, apparently what you're actually supposed to do is yell really loudly as if the outcome of the World Cup depends on the ref agreeing to change his/her mind because of what you say.
If this coach wants to make a minor criticism of your game-handling, fine. If this coach will take the time to look up the rules on drop balls, he's going to feel embarrassed and should apologize. And maybe that coach should be worried that his team spaced out, didn't notice you were about to drop the ball and let a kid dribble through all of them to set up the tying goal. He's clearly taking out that frustration on you.
Funny you mention that. My parents use to sit down by the corner flag for a couple reasons 1) to not hear the parents gripe about the referee, opposing team, coaches, stadia, etc 2) because when you sit at midfield you don't have as good of a view as opposed to the corner flag. Now that my parents are older they would come out and watch us coach or me referee. They still sit in the same corners of the same stadiums I use to play in or the same spot next to the corner flag away from everyone.
My parents generally know I ref, I tell them fun stories. I've also coached the majority of their kids, so they trust me. They ask a LOT, especially with HS rule differences. I'm usually just informative, and rarely judge an official, but it's REALLY hard sometimes. VAR Captain last night after he ushers a ball over the goal line "Jesus, I didn'[t touch him, these parents are so stupid." "Every last one of them, right?" "I respect that, ref."
In my experience, U11's should know what to do at a dropped ball. Maybe not always the case, maybe it's different in other areas. That said, nothing would be lost by shouting out, "OK guys, dropped ball here!" If they don't respond after that, not your problem. Then again, the first tournament game I did, U11G, I called something for an inbound IFK inside the PA. They seemed to think it was a PK. My arm was up. The ball was nowhere near the penalty area, only a few yards inside the 18 and somewhere near to in line with the goalpost. Kick was taken with no one but the kicker and keeper inside the PA. The kick went directly toward the goal - and the goalkeeper got a hand on it before it went in. That ended up being the only goal of the game. Afterwards, the coach thought I should have told them how to defend against the kick. Um, isn't that the coach's job? If your team is "good enough" to go to a tournament, they should be good enough to know what an IFK is and how to defend against it. Regarding correcting the livid offside comments, maybe a simple statement. "Actually that's the THIRD way listed in the Laws to be called offside." Emphasizing the word "third" might give the complainer reason to step back and decide it's a really arcane point and there should be no reason that he'd ever heard of it before. Or maybe not, maybe he's just someone who has to be right ...
You may not always be wearing the Referee “hat” but the license card is in the pocket. Fulfill the role you are in at the time but know according to the ethics standard you still aren’t within your rights to question Referee decisions. Worked with a guy that tried to berate a Referee he had literally just worked with the previous game because he was “a coach” in this game.
+1 for obscure music references I, admittedly, am a very antagonistic person. I enjoy tension and resolving problems, so I have to try to avoid these situations because I will seek them out too much. However, I know that highly emotional people, whether angry or happy, look for confirmation. So if I know someone is causing a ruckus, I will usually just go and stand by them and remain very stoic even during contentious situations. Usually someone will look for confirmation: "Are you watching this?", "Man, can you believe that call?", etc. It gives them an opportunity to bring it up how they would like, IF they would like, and gives me an opportunity to respond with a question like "Well, they changed it last year that if the defender is trying for the ball, it's just a yellow, not red, right?" Instead of me coming off as an antagonist, it gives me the opportunity to be an educator. If they respond with "No way, that's not true!" I can plead ignorance and say "Weird! Let me google it." and I get to play the helpful ignorant role rather than the "ACTUALLY!" guy.
In my life outside of soccer, I am a high school history teacher. Everyone knows that I officiate various levels of soccer. On the rare instance when I have a night off and one of the school's teams is playing, I will go watch my students. I will explain the rules/laws to people there when there is some confusion, but I will not criticize my fellow officials. For example, a couple days ago, the boys varsity team was playing a night game. One of their goals was disallowed because the player was offside in the goal area. The fans were upset when the referee allowed the other team to take the IFK from the top of the goal area instead of where the player was when he became involved in play. I explained to the people around me that he was correct, any defensive free kick in the goal area can be taken anywhere in the goal area. Of course, I also had to explain that it's called a goal area, not a goalie box!
Umm, but it's in the penalty box so it must be the goalie box. Oh, and did you explain that no player can touch the keeper in that box? I love that one.
I will NEVER debate judgment calls and will only clarify rules/laws when I know the referee is right. For example, I calmly explained the buildout line offside concept to an opposing parent once when he was loudly calling for an offside when my son was between the halfway line and buildout line with only the keepe between him and the goal. For my son’s team, everyone knows I officiate. I usually sit among the parents with my wife, and the other parents are normally great about not asking me about calls. It happens every so often, but if the parents are getting a little riled up I move down the sideline. Since they know my referee status, they hardly ever get vocal toward the officials. They usually sideline coach if they get loud.
My favorite thing is watching with a good friend of mine, who's son I've coached and plays with mine on the H.S. Freshman squad. H'es been a ref for ages and I quite often bounce questions off of him. I also go support him when he's working and I've nothing else going on. It's fun to nitpick him after matches when he misses things. During matches where we're both spectating, his son will foul a player and he'll disagree, and we parents give him stick about it "Take off your parent glasses, dude!" It's good fun to nitpick each other.