Pachuca in 2008 Club World Cup [R]

Discussion in 'Mexico: Club Cups and Competitions' started by Nico Limmat, Sep 21, 2008.

  1. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    It worked already. You do what it works. If any team has any amount of strategy, they would decide to bunker against Mexico, because it's the most effective weapon and it suceeds time and time again. Until Mexican teams learn this, they will keep falling over the same rock. This game isn't a beauty contest and it isn't decided on style points. If Quito wins the title bunkering, they sure can laugh at all the critics and they wouldn't give a damn about it.
     
  2. Estevo

    Estevo Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 21, 2007
    The I to the E!
    Club:
    Pumas UNAM
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    It's not bitching and whining.. It's just making an observation of the reality of the game.. It's pathetic to watch a team bunker.. A team that is supposed to be the best in Sudamerica.. Like Bauzo had said previous to the game, they were the favorites because of the Federation they represented blah blah blah.. Pathetic to watch a champion (que campeones :rolleyes:) bunker..

    Is it fair? This is futbol, the best team doesn't always win. It's the one that can capitalize on their opportunities..

    Bunkering gets you the one hit wonder.. Un titulo, y al olvido..
     
  3. Mosco

    Mosco Member+

    Dec 1, 2004
    Sun Valley, CA
    Oh well I hope quito gets worked by Man. United
     
  4. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    It's a tactic and it's valid. I hate bunkering and don't like bunkering but I wouldn't bitch about how it's unfair. You play to counter that rival and if anything has been shown is that bunkering is the best way to match a mexican team. The US knows it and so do most of the countries and still mexicans can't figure it out and end up bitching and whining about how its "ugly" and not fair and that "solo hubo un equipo que propuso" after they CAN'T do their job. It's totally pathetic they way mexican teams just end up with excuse after excuse after failing in the same way. It may not have been nice but in the end is a pretty clear win (2-0) and that is what matters. I'm totally sick of the whinefest against something totally predictable (that bunkering works against mexican teams).
     
  5. sangreazul

    sangreazul Member

    Nov 17, 2003
    Belmont, CA
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Tell that to the Italians. Either at the national team or club level. Catennaccio baby!!!


    Playing "well" doesn't mean playing offensive futbol. Playing "bad" doesn't mean playing defensive futbol.

    Quito had their game plan, they executed it well, and they won. Pachuca didn't execute and they lost.

    You may or may not like they style of play, but at the end of the day, it's all about winning. Look at the Dutch. They supposedly play beautiful futbol yet it hasn't gotten them much. They don't win not because they play exciting soccer. They lose because at the end of they day, they fail to execute. Having said that, I would rather watch Holland play rather than Italy.
     
  6. Wiso

    Wiso Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 4, 2007
    Phoenix
    Club:
    Club León

    I never said it was unfair.. i said they are b1tches for doing it.

    don't bring in mexico to this..

    angola, Usa, honduras.. blah.. we all know. teams that can't cut it...bunker... and if they win.. meh,

    it's always the case.... honduras will bunker against any team they think is better. same case for USA. it's not about it's the best way to beat mexico. it's the best way to beat a bettter team.. hold back.. wait for a mistake and score.

    Now.. it's ok if you are Costa Rica and are playing germany in the opening round. go ahead and counter. it's best strategy.. your saprissa players can't compare to euros.. BUT when a so called BETTER teams do it.. they are b1tches.

    LD beats Pachuca by counter, Should Man u also counter against pachuca if they were to face them? No.. why, because they don't have to.



    so let's recap..

    The best team in the americas should not have to bunker to a team that couldn't even make to one sigle game in their post season..
     
  7. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    That's BS. As Sangreazul mentioned, Italy does it and they are a top team. Bulgaria did it to Mexico and it wasn't because they were scared. Mourinho teams, Romania in the 90's even Arias and Lapuente teams have done it. This BS about how it's "teams that can't cut it" is what makes Mexico fail. It's BS deal that this supposed better team, had to play attractive soccer when something like this works almost every time against mexican teams when done right.

    You keep on about this great team but the difference wasn't that wide. In fact if anything, it was the best chance for a Mexican team to reach a final so far, as Quito doesn't seem to be as good a team as other libertadores champs. They play in a lesser league and at their best, they couldn't beat the last place America and went thru on the away goals. So the difference is that great and even if it is, it was the right strategy that in the end paid off.
     
  8. Guayaquileño

    Guayaquileño Member

    Dec 3, 2006
    New York City
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am not an LDU fan at all ... but I gotta give it to them. They are the best team in all the America's and they proved it today against Pachuca..

    Clear Win...... 2-0 . Bolanhos' goal was a still ball goal. Pachuca plain out got owned by their futbol overlord of 2008. For a reason they are American champions... talent, tactics, and do what it takes to win.

    Now the big boys play .. ManU vs LDU-Q .... EUFA vs CONMEBOL..
     
  9. Deleted USer

    Deleted USer Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    promotion relegation is a systematic means to reward winners and condemn losers. It is not meant to award fun and the popular. It is the ultimate form of athletic darwinism, the strong survive and the weak are punished. It is an incentive for lesser clubs to invest.

    Where is Toros Neza with all their flashy players and weird hairdos and costumes? I will tell you where, relegated, lost 80% of TV revenues that come with being in the First division, and now extinct.

    When 2 teams are well positioned and do not allow for either to open up, it can be just as interesting and fun as 2 teams forget about playing defense and play cat and mouse.
     
  10. CyberAce100

    CyberAce100 Member+

    Jul 4, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Good thing I didn't stay up to watch this game. Say whatever you want about this bunkering style of play, but until Mexican teams figure out how to stop it, teams are going to continue to use it. I'm sorry, but this Liga team is average at best, they lost a ton of good players from last year. Makes you think how average Pachuca is.
     
  11. guado

    guado Member+

    Jun 30, 2004
    ocotengo miedo
    Club:
    Inverness Caledonian Thistle
    Nat'l Team:
    Indonesia
    i'm going to agree with rafa and sangreazul.

    as much as people want to associate playing well and sightly with offense and ugly and bad with defense, there is a reason teams continue to bunker.

    if it didn't work, teams wouldn't keep doing it.

    as much as we want to watch a show, the ultimate goal is to win - ugly, pretty, lucky, clearly, undeservingly, with 11 men behind the ball or 4.

    wiso can keep complaining about "lesser" teams bunkering or calling quito bitches for bunkering,

    it's not about having to bunker, it's about winning.

    and if bunkering gets you the win, so be it.
     
  12. Estevo

    Estevo Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 21, 2007
    The I to the E!
    Club:
    Pumas UNAM
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    You guys are right! Relegation, results, championships, etc. etc.

    Bunkering gets the job done. Italy, is the exception to a team consistently using it and being successful, tho..

    But for fuck's sake, this was a tournament where only the best come out to strut their skill.. The best of every federation.. And you hide ten men behind your own midfield? You'z a bitch!
     
  13. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    It got them to the final and it worked. What else do you want? This is a competitive sport it's not based on preference and bunkering works especially against mexican teams, who seem to not be able to work an answer to this time and time again. And I'm really sick that it appears the only answer to bunkering that mexican teams, players and some fans is to bitch about it being unfair and not entertaining. BS.
     
  14. Estevo

    Estevo Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 21, 2007
    The I to the E!
    Club:
    Pumas UNAM
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I am a PUMAS fan. De hueso colorado.. I bleed blue..

    I watch other teams because I am a football fan also. It isn't killing me that Pachuca lost.

    I watch futbol, and give an opinion.. I don't care for Pachuca's style, or anyone else's for that matter. I am interested to watch good, attractive football..

    There is no BITCHING in my opinion.. I dislike the bunker style. Simple.

    My opinion sickens you.. wow..



     
  15. Dynamic

    Dynamic New Member

    Aug 1, 2008
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Quito the "best" team in america LOL ya right. Thats why they lost to a sorry ass boca in the sudamericana got pwnt actually. Pachuca didnt even make it far in the mexican league playoffs, had a good game against al ahly but you could see their still lacking. Either way the ref helped conmebol agian as usual they always need the help. And that 2nd goal, lol omfg what bs call.

    You can say its affective, it works blah blah etc. but its still pathetic futbol, just like italy in the wc 06. Was everybody saying OMFG italy played BEAUTIFUL footy? NOOO everybody was saying how lucky they got and what a garbage display of bunker football they played and their diving n ref helping, very similiar to quito's wins against america n pachuca. Like I hate boca, but i have seen them beat good teams with brilliant football, they dont come and bunker and play bitch footy. Just like when greece won the euro cup, nobody gave them true props because they bunkered the whole tourney, yes they won but still nobody gave a shit and look at them now. Just like greece, quito will go down in quality and eventually be a crap team because crap tactics dont last. I cant wait to see manu beat the crap out of bunker quito.
     
  16. Wiso

    Wiso Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 4, 2007
    Phoenix
    Club:
    Club León
    you are right do what it takes to win.

    next time.. Quito should line their players in front of the goal, hold hands and have some players on their shoulders..

    block the goal completely.. have the other team just take shots all night long.

    a win is a win...



    Look.. if you bunker, then i guess that's all you have. pathetic.

    and it's not just.. "it's what works with mexican teams" because i will bet money they will do the same against Man U.





    if it works.. great. good job.. but you are still a b1tch.
     
  17. Hungryjack

    Hungryjack Member+

    Jul 8, 2006
    Houston
    Pachuca - Osaka ought to be a game worth getting up early for. I expect a lot of flowing offense from both sides.
     
  18. sangreazul

    sangreazul Member

    Nov 17, 2003
    Belmont, CA
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico

    Why does Mexico even bother playing in any club or national team championship. We all know that we are moral champions!! And if when we lose (face it, we have never won anything of importance) it is because the whole world conspires against us because they hate Mexicans.

    Whether you like it or not, Quito was the better team than Pachuca. People need to stop making excuses and face reality. Mexican clubs and national team aren't as good as they think they are. Sad but true.

    You may think "bunkering" is pathetic. But what is worst is what others have pointed out. Making unednding excuses when a Mexican club or NT gets eliminated. Appoint Mexico eternal perpetual champions so we don't have to compete in any tournament so we don't have to come up with excuses as to why again, we didn't win.

    Mexico: Eternal Moral World Soccer Champions!! Viva Mexico Cabrones ...
     
  19. sangreazul

    sangreazul Member

    Nov 17, 2003
    Belmont, CA
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Another thing I would add is that people are also mistaking thinking that "bunkering" equals winning. How many games have you seen that a team bunkers and loses. Just as often or more often than not. And you have all seen the script.

    A) Team bunkers, gets scored upon, and then has no clue, idea, or dream of ever scoring and obviously loses.

    B) Team bunkers, gets scored upon, and comes all out creating many chances and still loses. You are left saying to yourself: WTF, why didn't they play like that the whole game ...


    Good teams find a way to beat bunkering. (France vs. Paraguay in 1998 WC for example. Took them a while and it was a great game, but in the end, the better team won. Not because of style, but because they were better.)

    Mexican clubs and NT have not found a way to win. And we keep making excuses and not ackowledging the winner after they beat us. Year after year after year ...
     
  20. guado

    guado Member+

    Jun 30, 2004
    ocotengo miedo
    Club:
    Inverness Caledonian Thistle
    Nat'l Team:
    Indonesia
    i wouldn't say that it's not acknowledged, just that people acknowledge the loss, then degrade the bunkering team.

    if they can't break past the bunker, there is no need for excuses.
     
  21. SoDamnSmooth

    SoDamnSmooth Red Card

    Oct 17, 2007
    NJ
    Club:
    Bayer 04 Leverkusen
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    I think the bigger b*tches are the ones who let themselves get beat by it.
     
  22. SoDamnSmooth

    SoDamnSmooth Red Card

    Oct 17, 2007
    NJ
    Club:
    Bayer 04 Leverkusen
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    They will do the same with Man U., except Man U. will probably win anyway.
     
  23. Perndog2006

    Perndog2006 Member+

    Jul 24, 2006
    Nery Nut Ryder
    Club:
    CF Rayados de Monterrey
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    you heard it here first

    bunker ball should be considered cheating



    if liga de quito plays the same way they played pachuca, they will beat manu




    liga esta jugando como equipo chico, pero ganando como uno grande.
     
  24. Panfilo

    Panfilo Member+

    May 9, 2003
    INLAND EMPIRE
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    You know the ones attacking LDU are the ones who also get all happy when Mexico beats Brazil.
     
  25. John Jagou

    John Jagou BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 8, 2006
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Pumas UNAM

    Hardly,

    The reason Mexican teams have a tough time against bunkering is that they do not have the players with the individual technical skill that can break the bunker. MANU is overflowing with these type of players, moreover, they have the confidence and patience that allows them to easily defeat this tactic. Confidence and patience are two virtues that I would never use to decribe a Mexican team. MANU wins 2-0.
     

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