P/I/P: TOR at Revs, Sat Sept 23, 5:00pm ET[R]

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by NFLPatriot, Sep 21, 2017.

  1. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

    Jun 25, 2002
    Foxboro, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, this one should be interesting.

    The dawn of the Soehn era. Players playing for jobs.

    TOR coming off their first home loss of the season, embarrassed by rivals MON 5-3 (down 5-1 after 75') last night.
     
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  2. dncm

    dncm Member+

    Apr 22, 2003
    Boston
    Toronto did not use Altidore, Giovinco, and Vasquez. They still have an 11 point lead to clinch first place and basically have the shield.

    It will come down to who Vanney decides to travel and play too.
     
  3. dncm

    dncm Member+

    Apr 22, 2003
    Boston
    From the USA N/A Thread on Altidore:

     
  4. BrianLBI

    BrianLBI BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 7, 2002
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How about some minutes for Herivaux?
     
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  5. REV IT UP

    REV IT UP Member

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Jul 12, 2004
    San Francisco
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We. Are. Going. To. Get. DESTROYED!
     
  6. abecedarian

    abecedarian Member+

    Mar 25, 2009
    SSSomerville
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except the Revs are nearly unbeatable at home. And don't forget the post-Heaps dead-cat bounce.

    Revs 3-0.
     
  7. dncm

    dncm Member+

    Apr 22, 2003
    Boston
  8. VTSoccerFan

    VTSoccerFan Member+

    New England Revolution, Vermont Catamounts, NCFC
    United States
    Jun 28, 2002
    Cary, NC
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  9. Feldspar

    Feldspar Member+

    Nov 19, 1998
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Must win, did win. Fire Burns.
     
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  10. RevsRule

    RevsRule Member+

    NE Revs, LAFC
    Jun 9, 1999
    N. Eastern, Mass
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nice game. I especially like it when Lee gets a goal and assist and beats Micky B's team. Its still amazing to me that if you compare stats between Lee and Nagbe, Lee blows him away in goals/assists/shots on goal.....and yet Arena snubs him. Goal #10 for Lee, one behind Kamara
     
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  11. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    Its amazing to me how dead these boards have become. What happened to the fans? Has the lack of interest shown my the owners infected the loyal fan base? Is there just no hope for any meaningful change therefore why even voice an opinion? IDK

    So we looked pretty good last night. I guess Toronto didnt think they needed a couple to beat us. Didnt quite work out did it. Looked basically the same as I would have expected Heaps to put out there with the exception of no Farrell. IDK if he's hurt. Once again they score over Captain Tierney's side, in fact, he was no where to be seen. He's always a defensive liability.

    Lee was once again the hero. I hate to think of this team if Lee walks at the end of his contract and i doubt the Revs will try seriously to keep him.

    Im TOTALLY disappointed that Burns is still employed. I had really hoped that he would also be let go by now so that a new guy could find a real coach and this team would move forward. I now have lost hope for that. If that was going to happen, I think it would have happened by now. Last faint hope is that they let him finish out season then fire him. I fully expect Soehn to be named head coach. Maybe he's ok but we really need a totally new start and that means Burns and Biello gone too. Burns has messed things up long enough
     
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  12. KapeGuy

    KapeGuy Member+

    Mar 21, 2010
    Cape Cod
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can only speak for myself -- I have not lost interest in the team at all, but I don't post anymore. I do still read the boards, now and then, but most of what interests me is not discussed. I long ago lost interest in the critiques of Burns and Heaps and Kraft. I am fascinated by a team that is so good at home and so bad on the road; a team that seems to have some basic defect -- really? -- losing a cup game to a D2 team after being up 3-0 in overtime? Last night was really fascinating -- getting the lead and immediately giving it back -- so Rev-ish -- and then grabbing the winner (so un-Revish). I find the make-up of the team fascinating and I still go watch games and I look for places where I can read about the on-field results NS bout the roster decisions. And now I am really interested to see how things unfold with the acting coach -- if they grab their first road win in Orlando (it would be un-Rev-ish), then they can actually get in a position where they might make the playoffs. I would love reading some thoughtful analyses about why they may have responded so differently last night . . . more Fire Burns posts -- not interested.
     
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  13. mathteamcoach

    mathteamcoach Member

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Sep 24, 2010
    Worcester, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I still follow the team a little and lurk in the forums when I want to keep up-to-date.

    I gave up my season tickets when they hired Heaps back in 2011. Thought I might buy them back when he was fired, but now I'm going to wait until they fire Burns and Bilello. However, if Kraft does fire them, I could see myself saying "I'll wait until the new stadium."

    I still go to 2 or 3 matches a season, but quite frankly I'd rather stay home and watch a few premier league matches every week.
     
  14. rkane1226

    rkane1226 Member+

    Apr 9, 2000
    Club:
    Stade Brestois 29
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The owner clearly doesn't care. Why should we?

    Truth is, I still probably care more than Kraft about the team but I'm not wasting any of my money on tickets or merchandise until I'm convinced ownership cares. Should he start to appear to care, it will take a lot more than "12-24 months" months of such behavior before I start to believe...
     
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  15. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You probably would like New England Soccer Today. They have an ex-coach analyze each revs game from a tactical/coaching perspective, which can sometimes be interesting. I read their content then come here to see how much consensus there is.

    If you're fascinated by the home/road form disparity, they may have stuff you'd like more than here. There isn't a lot of Kraft/ownership commentary; it's primarily on-field analysis. They also cover the Breakers and other New England based semi pro teams.
     
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  16. KapeGuy

    KapeGuy Member+

    Mar 21, 2010
    Cape Cod
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks -- I do read NESoccer today and I enjoy Sewall's commentary. I also read Bent Musket, and I do still check out these boards. I also go to the boards of the teams the Revs are playing, to see how the world looks there and to see what I can learn about the upcoming opponents.

    I am really curious about how the rest of the season will unfold, and I'm curious what they will do in the off-season. Assuming they come up short of making the playoffs, will they tear the team up and start over, or will they keep the core intact? Again, I'm considered a KAD around here, but I've long thought there is something wrong at the heart of the team -- the tie in Seattle earlier this year is an example -- the team Heaps built (and I suspect it was his team more than Burns') has always seemed to falter when it matters most, and I've never understood why. I don't buy the explanations offered here -- that he was tactically naive or that his substitutions were poor -- I think it is something subtler. Why did they bounce back after the gut-punch Saturday in the 84th minute? That wasn't tactics or substitutions -- it was a two players (Nguyen and Kamara) stepping up and making a play -- why did that so rarely happen in crunch time during Heaps' tenure?

    What will happen now to the allegedly talented core? And what will happen to Heaps? Those are both story lines worth following, imo.
     
  17. swedust

    swedust Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    As far as on-field stuff goes, I thought starting Juan at ACM and bringing Lee off the bench was great.

    I love what Lee has done but I feel as though it became obvious by June that MLS defenses had figured out how to cope with his pulling the strings. Also I believe he has lost a step, speed-wise.

    I wanted to see Fagundez there, but maybe his dribbling is more effective from a wider position. I didn't think Agudelo would work hard enough both ways to take that spot on the field, but I was very impressed by his commitment to tracking back, etc. at least for this one game.

    Hope to see more of it.
     
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  18. BERich

    BERich Member+

    Feb 3, 2012
    New England
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good leadership is the ability to inspire your team to reach or exceed their goals. Jay did not possess good leadership abilities. When Jay was going ballistic hollering at the ref on a foul in the middle of the park, that doesn't inspire your team to bear down and work harder. The team looks at that and probably thinks - what a fool. So you are probably right, it wasn't tactics or substitutions (even though I don't think he was very good in this area); it was his lack of leadership and ability to inspire his team.
     
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  19. a517dogg

    a517dogg Member+

    Oct 30, 2005
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    I thought Agudelo played really differently at withdrawn forward than he had under Heaps. He took players on a lot more and was successful with those take-ons.
     
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  20. dncm

    dncm Member+

    Apr 22, 2003
    Boston
    Welcome back too!

    One tactical change that I noticed that clearly had to come from Soehn was the way the back 4 defended the ball when it was closer to the sidelines. Under Heaps system all 4 backs would shift - but in the Toronto game, when the ball was, for example, on Anguoa's side - him and Delemea would shift over to apply the pressure and cover - BUT, Dielna and Tierney would stay central, and not shift all the way over so there was a gap between the 2 centerbacks - I assume for it to be filled by one of the #6s Koffie or Caldwell if a Toronto player went into that space. My guess for that was to have better support centrally if a team switched the ball or early cross to have 2 defenders there. It worked against Toronto in this game - but let's not forget they did not have Giovinvo and Altidore up top.

    Not saying this is some brain child of Soehn's that is the magic bullet or maybe just used based on what team they expected from Toronto - but it was clearly a different tactic then what Heaps was teaching. Will it work every game against team's that have solid front runners or penetrating attacking midfielders? Not sure.

    My personal opinion. Even though he was in his job for a long time which means he gets all the MLS nuances, I think many did not think he really had the head coaching chops (unlike someone like Petke) - that comes from the articles, Sirius XM shows from former players/coaches who alluded to what other GMs, coaches, and players were saying, etc.

    Therefore, I think he will go the way of a similar coach to Heaps - Greg Ryan who coached the women's Nat team - almost same criticisms. He ended up in a college program - Michigan women. Could see Heaps going that route and some college program would definitely take him. Maybe someone takes Heaps as an assistant in MLS, but I would not be surprised if no one inquired about him being an MLS Head Coach anytime soon. Or maybe he goes back to 9-5 business job.
     
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  21. dncm

    dncm Member+

    Apr 22, 2003
    Boston
    To me this would be an interesting understanding: Did Lee not start because of muscle spasms since he was listed as questionable OR was he "Dropped" per Kyle's tweet? Those are an important distinction and I wish we had some reporters who would freakin clarify these things. C'mon Kyle.
     
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  22. RevsRule

    RevsRule Member+

    NE Revs, LAFC
    Jun 9, 1999
    N. Eastern, Mass
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well if "Lee was dropped" then it was either a brilliant plan to bring him on late, a concern that he couldn't go 90, or some other damn stupid reason because he basically won the game for the Revs.

    Lee is the only reason its worth tuning in to see a game.
     
  23. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Put another way, it's not Heaps having a lack of passion. It's his lack of an ability to effectively channel that passion to inspire the right way.
     
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  24. KapeGuy

    KapeGuy Member+

    Mar 21, 2010
    Cape Cod
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks. I was on travel and didn't see this one -- interesting analysis on Agudelo.
     
  25. KapeGuy

    KapeGuy Member+

    Mar 21, 2010
    Cape Cod
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks everyone for the thoughtful posts. Nice analysis dncm on the back line and on Heaps -- I like BERRich's thoughts on leadership and Liverpool's point about the right kind of passion. I've long doubted it is a question or bad tactics or a bad game plan, but maybe it was the leadership thing. I know at the levels where I've played and coached (far far below professional), small touches by the coach can make a big difference. I've seen a group of players be well organized, confident, sure of their roles with one coach, and the same players can look confused, tentative, and lacking in confidence with another coach. It'll be interesting to see what kind of Revs team comes out Wednesday night in Orlando . . .
     

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