P/I/P PHI vs NER, Sat Aug 13th, 7:30p ET

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by dcochran, Aug 13, 2016.

  1. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because we wanted to strengthen our team for the push to the playoffs. Gotta make moves during the all-important summer transfer window if you're serious about making the playoffs.
     
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  2. Revs In First :)

    Aug 15, 2001
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm afraid just getting there is enough to save his job. Evidence? Fernando Clavijo, 2001 season.
     
  3. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But even then, the handwriting was on the wall. They brought in Nicol as his assistant, and even Stevie Wonder could see that if Clavijo did not get the team off to a good start, he's get shown the door and Nicol would take over. And that' exactly what happened.
     
  4. Brian in Boston

    Brian in Boston Member+

    Jun 17, 2004
    MA & CA, USA
    Is it so shocking that Heaps - a guy whose only coaching experience consisted of three seasons as a volunteer assistant at the collegiate level - should find himself out of his depth as a head coach at the professional level? Yet, the Krafts, Brian Bilello, and Mike Burns felt that Heaps was the best candidate for the job.

    Sorry, but given his dearth of coaching experience prior to being hired by the Revolution, the fact that "Heaps has done nothing with" the team shouldn't take anyone by surprise... least of all the so-called front-office "brain trust" that made the decision to hire him.

    You'll get no argument from me that Jay Heaps should be relieved of his coaching duties. The sooner, the better. Frankly, I don't think he should have been hired in the first place. The fact that the Krafts, Bilello, and Burns did think Heaps deserved to be hired speaks to their culpability in the shit-show this franchise has become. Clearly, their judgement was sorely lacking.

    Then again, with that Duke education, maybe Heaps just interviewed well. :rolleyes:
     
  5. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    You ain't kidding. I just about lost it at that point - like that's the best idea you got Jay?
    ------------------

    - This must rank up there with the most embarrassing Rev performances ever - and I'm including Joe Public and Mid-Michigan Bucks. Unbelievably weak performance.

    - With a critical game and the coach under pressure, the players made it clear how much they support him. Some played hard throughout, some had no intention of competing.

    - that said, it looks obvious to me that Heaps has lost a good percentage (not all) of the team - including probably their most talented player.

    - guys who at least put in an honest effort and competed: Kamara, Caldwell, Rowe, Shuttleworth, Tierney, Daigo, Herivaux and Watson.

    - those who are major suspect: Bunbury, Farrell, Goncalves and, most of all, Nguyen.

    - Bunbury is looking lazier by the game, it's embarrassing how he walks or stands on the field when his defenders need his help. Look at the first goal, he stands, throws his arms up and turns to walk up field (all while the play continues behind him and Philly scores!).

    - Heaps, in post-game comments, says it's not just one kind of mistake killing them: in this game, that is just wrong. All four goals given up were primarily because defenders didn't stay with players they were guarding off the ball. Then they are well out of position when their guy gets the ball with a clear shot at goal. All four goals you see the same thing.

    - How can a team in a must-win situation, have 3 players stop playing for a ball out of touch (which wasn't out of touch) 90 seconds into a match? Just mind-boggling.

    - So Heaps deservedly benched Nguyen for a game and we played much better without him. Then Nguyen subbed into that game and looked as ineffective as he has all season, so what does Heaps do? Start him for this game! Jay, what gave you the sense that Nguyen was going to give you any more than he has been giving you?

    - I'm convinced that Nguyen is just biding his time until Heaps gets fired. I can't find any other explanation for his play. And ... Heaps is a fool for playing him.

    - The Revs weren't even getting on each other for the mistakes - it certainly looks like they don't care anymore.

    - Here we are 20 or so games into the season and the Revs haven't figured out that you need to mark players in your own penalty area?
     
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  6. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    9 games (I believe) out of 24 where we've given up at least 3 goals.

    And yet nothing changes. As rkupp noted (wow, we're even agreeing now ... you know it's dire straights for the Revs! ;)), Heaps just doesn't seem comfortable going away from his comfort zone. Nguyen, right back in. Daigo, first sub. Bobby's not been that good, but he pretty much is guaranteed to start in the league.

    Thoroughly disappointing.
     
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  7. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  8. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There may have been a few losses during the dark '98 and '99 seasons -I remember one against LA in maybe '99 under Zenga that was simply pathetic- but I think this one against Philly is worse than those performances you listed because of the players' sheer apathy. That to me is worse than the 6-0 losses at RSL or similar blowouts, if the effort is there. The players just didn't care by the end. This team has already quit. That's thoroughly embarrasing.
     
  9. Dr. Sneezy

    Dr. Sneezy Member

    Jul 2, 2016
    After rewatching the highlights, Bunbury is walking AWAY from the action on goals 1, 2 and 4. On the second he takes a few casual steps away from his man as the ball is traveling toward the man he is marking, who promptly scores. On goal 3 he doesn't make it into the picture

    In Farrell's defense, he misses the tackle and gets up and runs toward the play while complaining. More incompetence than laziness (got to get either ball or man there) but your overall point is right on, the players really seem to have quit on Heaps.

    2 years ago, Nguyen was 3rd in MVP voting and JoGo was defender of the year. This year both seem below average
     
  10. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

    Jun 25, 2002
    Foxboro, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the phrase "failure to replace" is going to go on Burns' tombstone...
     
  11. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also "He tried." :)
     
  12. dncm

    dncm Member+

    Apr 22, 2003
    Boston
    Definitely agree - I also think Heaps decisions to try and strengthen the team, his tactics (or lack thereof), his subbing patterns, and "motivation" are just not to the level that Lee thinks is working or will work long term. And that is happening to all the players like you mention.

    Players like Jones' level changes that immediately and affects all players on the team regardless of record and can "hide" those aspects of an out-of-element coach - the on and off the field leadership and belief. Revs have zero players like that and that is why the team is the way it is.

    Definitely agree - he has been super suspect this year playing way off this line at times he shouldn't. Giovinco's bomb, and then off a dopey free kick in the Philly game he almost gets beat from 30 yards, puts it out for the corner that leads to the 3rd goal. Mariner's quote on telecast BEFORE the corner kick and goal - " Keep it safe and ask questions later". Yikes!

    Again, I was never high on Bobby as the long term replacement, but I had to admit during the Jones spell, he seemed to be more consistent and solid (plus no more AJ Soares who always seemed to be yelling at him). He was never going to be an all-star but we have seen teams survive with "average" GKs so I was also letting it slide. But he is back to being below average and trending the wrong way - part he was never that good anyway, part no Jones anymore, part Heaps as noted above by rkupp.

    Add GK to the crisis list (and I don't mean Knighton either).
     
  13. a517dogg

    a517dogg Member+

    Oct 30, 2005
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    What's also frustrating is that with the Sporting CP partnership, he had great opportunities to go over there and shadow world class coaches. He didn't take advantage of that. Not sure if it was because of hubris, or desire for time off/family time, or that due to understaffing he had to be scouting then instead, but he could have improved his areas of weakness, and didn't.
     
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  14. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Going off topic, but that applies to Burns' job as well. In two years of the partnership, he's gotten one guy here who's played a total of 91 minutes. This is after admitting they screwed up last year and didn't use the partnership enough.

    These guys still have jobs. Just astounding.
     
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  15. Minutemanii

    Minutemanii Member+

    Dec 29, 2005
    Abington MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it's pretty obvious this team is no longer playing for their coach.
     
  16. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

    Jun 25, 2002
    Foxboro, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am SO done with Bunbury.

    My softball team played in a tourament Saturday. Four games in ten hours, out in the hot sun from 8:30am to 6:30pm. I got up in the last inning of the last game, two outs, trailing by 8. All I had to do was ground out and we could all go home, and no one would complain. But I smacked the first pitch into centerfield for a base hit, my ninth hit of the day.

    So, if this overweight, over-the-hill amateur can still bring it after ten hours in the sun, I have no sympathy for highly trained, well-compensated professionals who walk away when the ball is still in play.
     
  17. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    It's shocking how uninvolved he looks.

    There was a similar play in the disaster in Toronto, where Farrell was sucked inside and his man was left for a open shot and goal. It seems more evident now that Farrell's mistake was thinking he had a midfielder who'd have his back and make a minimum effort to pick up an open man!
    I really don't think GK is a problem. Shuttleworth's biggest issue is not knowing whether his defenders will actually pick up open players or not. You can't really expect a keeper to maintain the needed consistency with that kind of trainwreck in front of him.
    I don't think it's that simple - I think the team is actually pretty split; I see at least half of the team still busting their butts and fighting for points. OTOH there seem to be at least a few that have gone the other way (Nguyen, Bunbury, Agudelo?, Goncalves?, Fagundez?). I think Caldwell, Rowe, Tierney, Watson, Kamara, Farrell and Shuttleworth, at the minimum, are still putting in the effort.
     
  18. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member+

    Mar 22, 2000
    Also possible that this FO is no longer managing for their owners.

    [i.e., What are Burns & Billelo doing to fill up the hours each day if Revs have no player acquisitions in recent window; no stadium; no observable interaction with partner Sporting CP; etc.? Does that mean they are disinterested and mailing it in, similar to what is being observed of some players on the field?]

    Or, worse -

    It is entirely possible that this FO is doing exactly what ownership wants them to do.
     
  19. Minutemanii

    Minutemanii Member+

    Dec 29, 2005
    Abington MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, on that front, I would guess the ownership see's that there's not much for them to do, so they have them checking on the jumpy things, making sure they are set up in the right places at the entrance and that they are inflated enough.
     
  20. goussoccer

    goussoccer Member+

    May 23, 2001
    Avon, CT
    Was at the game --- it's a kind of loss that told me driving 2 hours each way to watch that kind of game is no longer sustainable. I'll continue to be a fan, but after 21 years I'll no longer be a season ticket holder. Love the game, love that we have a team in New England, but it's pretty damn sorry when our owners and management continue to trot out the same mediocre product and let our best players leave ignominiously.
     
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  21. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    That's why I don't think this was just a random bad loss. This one cut a LOT deeper IMO. Everyone in that locker room had to know that this was a desperate time, and since they rarely win on the road, getting points at home from a team right in front of them in the standings was critical. And then they don't even play hard for the first 2 minutes?
     
  22. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As of now, they're all saying the right things. They HAVE to beat a crap Crew squad. But that win shouldn't/wouldn't signify that things have changed.
     
  23. dncm

    dncm Member+

    Apr 22, 2003
    Boston
    On this current team as shaped - GK is as much a problem as everywhere else. A good GK can who commands respect and organizes that average back 4 improves his chances of success.

    Bobby has done none of that this year - he is always clapping and running around on dead balls looking spastic but no one seems to be listening and he is then playing way off his line at the wrong times. His distribution with his hands has been very poor - running around and then rolling the ball to a player that is immediately under pressure. He is definitely struggling in all aspects of his game this season (and his haircut.....)

    Like you point out, an average GK (not a good one) cannot be expected to maintain consistency with what is a very average back 4 in front of him.....

    unless in front of that average back 5 - there are some stud players and leaders who dictate the games, score and protect leads, keep possession, and take pressure ("hide") the average back 5. We had that with Jones - we do not have it now.

    Agreed - and that falls on Heaps. Because it exists shows he either has to recognize the players who are checked out and have the balls to do something about it(bench, trade, buy new players, or all of the above), or Heaps is not the right man for the job. This is what happens all over the world.

    When we had Jones, Jones did that work to unite the team on and off the field, not Heaps. We have not have any players capable of this, so again - falls on the coach.
     
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  24. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    I agree - they've shown they can beat dogs like Chicago and Columbus, but that's not enough.
    I don't think you even need outstanding players - you just needs the guys who do play to show some consistency, so the keeper knows what he can expect and what he can't. Right now, breakdowns can come from anywhere - and that is going to lead to a keeper looking bad when it does happen.
    I would have thought that JoGo would fill that role, but it doesn't seem to be happening. I like his presence, but he doesn't seem to extend that to leading the whole defense (maybe because he's mistake-prone like just about everyone else).
     

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