P/I/P, Match 29: Revs vs TOR, 8/31/19 7:30pm

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by rkupp, Sep 3, 2019.

  1. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    Did no one really create a thread for this one?
     
  2. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    Bottom-line, we were very, very lucky to come out with a point (and keep our unbeaten streak going) in this one. Toronto seemed like the better side and we managed to tie it late without a really good shot.

    Whether it's coincidental or not, we seemed to have become much less effective offensively since Bunbury went down. Maybe having to respect his speed and quick-counter ability was opening things up for Gil and Bou?

    I really question Arena's choice to go with Agudelo in that spot. Yes, it's his favored position, yes he's loaded with potential, yes Arena's got a lot of faith in him - but, it's been so long and so infrequent that he has actually delivered in key situations. He had one golden opportunity to put his stamp on the game and could only meekly poke the ball towards the keeper.

    I think Caicedo-dos would have been a better choice - when given significant minutes, he's shown to be more dangerous and even scores occasionally - something, last I checked, Agudelo doesn't.

    Or, if we wanted to try to replicate Bunbury's influential speed, why not give Taj Buchanan a shot?

    Turner and the Revs were very, very, ... very lucky on the blown offsides call for Toronto. Look like a straight red to Turner there if the play continues.

    I think the new-coach bounce had long-lasting effects on the team when Arena took over, but it seems like our play has become more and more mediocre over the last 4-5 games. I think Arena has a real challenge now, getting this team back on a real winning footing again, as it seems like our momentum appears to have run its course - for now.

    I had hoped that this would be Mancienne's time to shine, but he seems to have a couple of serious stumbles in each game. I wish it weren't so, but I think Delamea needs to come back - as he's been the steadier one (and Farrell is clearly the most irreplaceable defender this year).

    I think we need some lineup shaking moves on the attacking end - I'm just not seeing any consistent production from Agudelo or Penilla. Let's see Buchanon - or get Rennicks or Angking back from their loans. ... not gonna happen, I know.
     
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  3. MM66

    MM66 Member+

    Mar 9, 2009
    Brookline, MA
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    One positive that stood out to me in this game was the speed of Bye and Jones along the wings. They aren't gifted with the ball at their feet, but they provide a lot of industry, and it creates space in the interior for Gil and Bou to operate.
     
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  4. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At this point I'm just grateful for the return of the team from the Fields of Punishment to the less painful Fields of Asphodel. I won't allow myself to dream of Elysium [for this year], when resurrection was already such a wonder. We make the playoffs, we don't make the playoffs, it's clear this is not a team at a Champion's level. But we have some pieces upon which such a team could be built. It will take the off year, and the opportunity to really nail down the personnel, to discover what Bruce Arena can craft.
     
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  5. teskicks

    teskicks Member+

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Jan 14, 2002
    Wrentham, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought Jones had a rough first half. I also got the impression that some of his teammates don't quite trust him going forward yet. He made several nice overlapping runs without getting the ball. I saw Penilla watch him make the run and then turn the ball inside instead of giving Jones the ball. This happened more than once.

    Bye looks like he has been working on crossing the ball.

    I look forward to seeing the development of both of these players.
     
  6. Jon Martin

    Jon Martin Member+

    Apr 25, 2000
    SE Mass
    For me as well, this was one of the two most interesting parts of the game from the Rev perspective - the other be the sheer brilliance of Turner. The question is what exactly is the upside of both these two guys? Both are competent, even tough, 1 v 1 defenders, both have solid fundamentals, both play with heart, but neither has developed the field awareness or tactical cleverness to spring the counter when the game opens up, and neither is a great crosser (not that we have players other than Delamea who are aerial threats.)
     
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  7. tsb11

    tsb11 Member+

    United States
    May 31, 2018
    I dunno, I still see Bye play 2 or 3 crosses a game that create actual danger. But its always Penilla, Bunbury, or Agudelo on the end of them and they seem to find new and exciting ways to shank good chances every week.
     
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  8. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's a decent low crosser with pace but he isn't very good crossing in the air which is what many people look for. If he adds that to his game, with his impressive pace, he'll be a solid MLS outside back for a long time. Same goes for Jones on the other side.
     
  9. Doublecard

    Doublecard Guest

    I feel much more comfortable with Jones at LB than I do with Castillo.
     
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  10. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bye's cross led directly to Zahibo's goal against Chicago, but yeah, that was a low cross. Still, I'll take it!
     
  11. tsb11

    tsb11 Member+

    United States
    May 31, 2018
    Its weird that people fall in love with the aerial cross. Those are often the easiest for a defense/keeper to deal with, because it gives them time to react. Lobbed crosses create a lower percentage of goals than keeping the ball on the deck/whipping the ball in low so I'm honestly happier to see him play more balls low to the ground
     
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  12. MM66

    MM66 Member+

    Mar 9, 2009
    Brookline, MA
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    They're both limited. Bye and Jones are classic running wingbacks. Arena's using them right - advance the ball, get back on defense, take what they can give you in the final third.
     
  13. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    That one was letter perfect!

    And, what enabled him to do it was Gil drawing three defenders and laying it off perfectly, giving Bye time and space to look up and spot Z's run and deliver the cross without direct pressure.
    Too many of the aerial crosses end up 'lobbing' in - a line drive cross, head high, gives the keeper and defenders very little time to react - and gives the attacker the opportunity to really power the ball in. The line drive also has greater potential to create chaos in the box, with deflections, missed clearances, ping-ponging, etc.

    I'm not sure the likes of Bye or Jones, at this stage of their careers are that precise with the target height of their crosses, but, in general, better to miss low on crosses, rather than high!

    And, while we're on crosses, commentators often talk about crosses being 'overhit', when in reality they've just gotten the height wrong - you want to drive a mid-height or low cross hard, but if you get under it a bit, it is likely going beyond the far post, or over the goal or end-line. It's a quibble, but the kicker usually gets the height wrong more often than the power.

    And, also on crosses, the 'short-cross' takes a very cultured touch, but can be a devastating weapon.
     
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  14. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member+

    Mar 22, 2000
    I've reached this point with Agudelo as well. And you are right - JFCaicedo does have some hidden reflex-quickness (that's a very different measurement than speed of open field running!) that at this point translates more often to shots and possibly goals than does any of Swags' recent activity.
     
  15. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member+

    Mar 22, 2000
    Add my vote to the "more minutes for Buchanan" tally. He was a bright spot when things were dimmest and when bright spots were very hard to find.
     
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  16. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member+

    Mar 22, 2000
    I love Farrell as a person, but this statement (with which I agree) is a huge (HUGE) indicator of deserved concern about the state of the overall Revs back line.
     
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  17. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #17 RevsLiverpool, Sep 5, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
    It's why most goals are scored off an aerial cross because it's tougher to defend if you've got good strikers able to get on the end of a skillfully placed cross and power the ball home from inside the 6. A low cross is lethal if the attacker is able to get to the endline then cross it back into the mixer for someone making a run, like Bye did for Zahibo against Chicago. However, those types of crosses are rare and often cleared.

    The ideal situation is to have outside backs with both types of crosses in their arsenal along with speed and accuracy. If you want to see what I'm talking about watch Robertson and Alexander-Arnold on Liverpool.
     
  18. tsb11

    tsb11 Member+

    United States
    May 31, 2018
    But they arent... Many more goals are scored keeping the ball on the deck. At the highest level the towering target striker has been replaced by little guys because they play can take defenders on 1v1 and play little cutbacks back to the penalty spot for easy goals. Just watch liverpool and city, they do that all day.
     
  19. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're a bit out of date, it's not about towering target strikers, aerial goals come from all over the field. It's why a central defender like Van Dyke is an aerial threat just as Lovren, Skrtel and Hyppia were before him. It happens all over the world, not just strikers score headers.
     
  20. tsb11

    tsb11 Member+

    United States
    May 31, 2018
    You're right they dont, but CB also dont score off crosses. Crosses happen during open play, a game state that pretty much never has the CB in a position to score. CB score from balls played in off set pieces (corners, free kicks, etc.). These types of plays arent counted as crosses for statistical purposes.

    And to our earlier point, Bye isnt taking set pieces. So his ability to play a lobbed cross doesnt matter as much. What does matter is his ability to play cutback balls in the box, which produces a much higher percentage of open play goals
     

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