P/I/P LA Zlatans @ Revs, 7/14, 7:30pm [R]

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by RevsLiverpool, Jul 13, 2018.

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Will Zlatan play?

Poll closed Jul 16, 2018.
  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
    10.0%
  2. No

    5 vote(s)
    50.0%
  3. Who cares!

    4 vote(s)
    40.0%
  1. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    There's nothing in the rules about "punish the one who retaliates". That's really a failure of refereeing. Players retaliate because refs miss stuff - if the refs call the initial fouls, then players respect him and don't feel the need to even things out themselves.
     
  2. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To paraphrase a common saying, "you play the game with the referee you have, not the one you wish you had." That's pretty much how it goes, (even in hockey) where the retaliator will always get punished and the instigator might not.

    Players need to adjust to how the ref is calling things, not to the letter of the law, and how it "should" be in a perfect world.
     
  3. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    Fine - I'm not letting Penilla off the hook here. I just think that the sport is taking a bad turn (and getting worse) by "mandating" what the referee must do in certain situations.

    1) Penilla was in no danger of hurting anyone, yet the guy who flattened him was. It makes a mockery of the game, rewarding the instigator handsomely, to eject Penilla while the instigator plays on.

    2) The WC to me was quite diminished by the plague of penalty kicks, because once they "go to replay", the referee must rule on technical violations in the penalty area, not use common sense and judgement as in the past. A foul on the edge of the box in a non-scoring situation was magically moved to the outside edge of the box in the past. No longer with replay. That's a step backwards IMO.

    3) The "cleats-up" rule is the same. Not all "cleats-up" situations are the same - some are dangerous, some are not. Mandating enforcement w/o judgement ruins games, rather than preserves ankles.
     
  4. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's like mandatory jail sentences for drug offenses. Could be the big time kingpin or some kid selling a few J's at the park, but both of them end up in the slammer. There needs to be some discretion involved.
     
  5. tsb11

    tsb11 Member+

    United States
    May 31, 2018
    As a referee ill offer a counter point. Most refs dont want to figure in the game's results and most "discretion" calls will ene up being non calls or the call that offers the least advantage to a team. By having a black and white rule book it makes it easier for the ref to officiate the game in a consistent way, by removing controversey from calls because now there isnt a gray area. When the rules are clear with definite outcomes there are no excuses. I dont like that penilla got a red card for what he did, but he should know better than to do something that for the entire history of the game has been a red card (or do it better and at least get value for his ejection)
     
    NFLPatriot repped this.
  6. Jon Martin

    Jon Martin Member+

    Apr 25, 2000
    SE Mass
    As opposed to any number of bogus PK's in MLS play, I don't recall seeing any PK's in the WC that I thought were silly.
     
    MM66 repped this.
  7. teskicks

    teskicks Member+

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Jan 14, 2002
    Wrentham, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Making contact doesn't matter. The offense is called "striking" and includes attempts
     
    RevsLiverpool repped this.
  8. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's the 18 yd box not the 16.5 yd box. As for the perceived injustices, that's part of any sport where subjectivity is involved. The better refs do use judgment and discretion on giving out cards, free kicks etc. FWIW, I actually thought the WC was overall well reffed with a reasonable number of pk's.
     
    teskicks repped this.
  9. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    I've been a ref too! ;)

    Okay, one lesson was that Penilla shouldn't have reacted as many human beings would in a situation like that. Yes.

    But, another lesson was learned too - by Allesandrini - and that is to plow through an opponent as hard as you can and maybe you'll provoke him into retaliating and changing the course of the game in your team's favor.

    Is that what we want happening?
    There were some I didn't agree with (Ronaldo's against Spain comes to mind - although that wasn't nearly as bad as the ghost foul that led to his brilliant, but un-earned, free kick that tied it late).

    I'm more critical than most re: penalty kicks. I hate seeing the course of the game changed by a penalty given on a non-scoring opportunity play. A PK has a huge affect on the game; I just hate to see the game's course determined that way unless it's a real attempt to deny a scoring opportunity.

    These hand-touches that require 5 minutes of analysis, the clipped ankle when the ball-handler is turning away from goal, the players who run through a goal-keeper's outstretched arm ... that's garbage and I hate it.

    They used to call more indirect free kicks in the area - I think they should be making more use of that for fouls in non-scoring situations.
    Yes, I know the rule - I just don't like it. Give the guy a fine, just don't let it determine the course of a game that tens of thousands of fans paid money to see.
    The WC set a record for PK's before even finishing the group stage!

    That's due mostly to the replay rule (and law of unintended consequences). Once they goal to replay, they have to rule completely technically and lose sight of the fact that things happen in real time (incredibly fast), not slo-motion and that they could find a foul on virtually every encounter if they slowed it down and analyzed it enough.

    One of the game's best attributes was judgement, not being a slave to rules, like football, baseball, etc. We're losing that.
     
  10. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

    Jun 25, 2002
    Foxboro, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Somewhat related:
    PRO issues statement on penalty decision in Columbus-Orlando match
    July 24, 2018, 3:53PM EDT
    MLSsoccer staff
     
  11. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
  12. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So as dumb as that Loons player was for bowling over Rowe as he was no-where close to being in scoring position, you'd disagree on that being a PK?
     
  13. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    Yes. I would have liked to see a free kick given at the edge of the box.
     
  14. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You say that now but when the revs get an offsides call overturned and the goal stands you'll change your tune. I think they need to find a happy medium between strict rule interpretation and loose to the point of frustrating errors. VAR, when done right, is the happy medium.
     
  15. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair enough. I'll remember that if it helps us win a game and see what you say. ;)
     
  16. BrianLBI

    BrianLBI BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 7, 2002
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I dunno, you jump in attempt to head the ball, untouched, and you decide in midair to purposefully flop? :rolleyes:
     

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