P/I/P: Crew at Revs, 8/20

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by patfan1, Aug 16, 2016.

  1. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But the problem is that Nicol should have left after the 2009 (or 2010 at the latest) season. The Revs will wake up and make a change after we miss the playoffs in 2018.
     
    Doublecard repped this.
  2. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    2009 was weird IIRC because the FO was expecting Twellman to fully recover and come back. I think it was the downward trend in the second half of '08 plus a less than convincing '09 "playoff team" followed by 2 consecutive years missing the playoffs in 2010 and 2011 that did it. If the Krafts are consistent, that means we've got Heaps another year even if this is a wooden spoon season. Yippeeee
     
  3. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, in 2008 we had a weak team and lost to Chicago int he playoffs and in 2009, IIRC, we were on the outside looking in, and all the results went our way on the last day so we snuck in. Let's just hope that doesn't happen this year (6th place, woo. hoo.) and we get put out of our misery early and eventually right the ship.

    This needs to be like Christmas Eve in the Ceausescu household in 1989 before anything can get better. Bilello, Burns, Heaps, off with their heads, the lot of them!
     
  4. Brian in Boston

    Brian in Boston Member+

    Jun 17, 2004
    MA & CA, USA
    #54 Brian in Boston, Aug 22, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2016
    The roller-coaster nature of the Revolution's play under Heaps - long winless stretches followed by victory streaks... rinse and repeat ad nauseum - speaks to a failure on the coach's part in being able to consistently prepare and motivate his players.

    Burns, despite his claiming to recognize the shortcomings within the Revolution's roster, has repeatedly proven himself incapable of adequately addressing the team's roster needs.

    Bilello, as the Revolution's President - and, before that, as the team's Chief Operating Officer - has overseen the underachievement of the franchise both on and off the pitch, failing to adequately motivate either Burns or Heaps to improve their performances in their jobs.

    Bilello, Burns and Heaps should ALL be shown the door.

    Yet, would the ouster of "The Dipshits Three" be enough to change the fortunes of the New England Revolution? Frankly, I'm not convinced.

    I truly no longer believe that there's any "fixing the Revolution" under the Kraft family's stewardship.

    Nothing - NOTHING - changes for the Revolution so long as Robert and Jonathan Kraft are the team's investor/operators. Despite the protestations of Jonathan Kraft and Revolution management underlings like Brian Bilello to the contrary, this franchise not only ranks well below Rand-Whitney Group, International Forest Products, and the New England Patriots as a priority for the Kraft family, it lags behind TeamOps and Patriot Place. The apathy surrounding the team's operation is palpable.

    Apathetic investor/operators. A pair of "go along-to-get along" yes-men filling the roles of team President and General Manager. A head coach so enamored of his own intellect and instincts that he seems incapable of making adjustments to the manner in which he manages the talent at his disposal.

    I'm sorry, but after years of neglect on the part of absentee slumlords and inept building managers have brought the Revolution to such a sorry state of repair, this property isn't a fixer-upper. No, it is time to foreclose on the property, condemn the structure, engage in a complete tear-down, and begin a ground-up rebuild under new ownership.
     
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  5. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Bayern München
    United States
    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am sure under your command tough decisions were made and there may have been a few article 15's or courts martial. Unfortunately under Krafts command people are promoted for incompetence.
     
  6. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    Well, they were more threatening, but when your defense is giving up goals at an alarming rate, giving them less cover in the midfield seems like a frightening proposition.

    I think we need a new formation mostly to get the players out of the automaton-like execution and get them back to thinking and believing on the field.

    Putting Juan up top (and lets remember, this is the first game where he's looked anything close to full speed in several months) might bring us some goals, but isn't going to help out leaking defense - which has us playing from behind early every game lately.

    I'm not against the idea - just don't think it's the answer.
     
  7. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    On the first goal, how do 3 out of 4 defenders get caught so far up field on the same play? o_O
     
  8. CottageRev

    CottageRev Member+

    Jun 13, 2010
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    As is sometimes forgotten Nicol wasn't actually fired following the 2011 season. His contract was up. He clearly (based on his demeanor during that season) had no interest in renewing/extending his time with the Revs. That the Revs appeared to spin it as a firing and a "pivot toward accountability" was pretty disgusting.

    On a side note (one I've noted a few times before), while the 2010 season was obviously an eyesore, I'm still really impressed by the fact that Nicol managed to string together a SuperLiga final appearance and not-completely-embarrassing regular season record with a team of almost literal amateurs (+Shalrie, Perovic, and half a season of Reis). I mean look at this roster - most of these guys wouldn't make a USL team today.
     
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  9. BrianLBI

    BrianLBI BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 7, 2002
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That roster is a great read. Some of those guys did manage to string together modest professional careers.
     
  10. goussoccer

    goussoccer Member+

    May 23, 2001
    Avon, CT
    Frankly I see this as the biggest issue, we seem to have some no one on this team that 'gets' that mentality or is able to impose it on his fellow players. While I see Heaps as culpable, I look more to whoever built this roster.

    See the above quote...(and thanks for your service.) If I was Heaps I would start to play some of the subs and sit the asses of the players not fighting for a spot and, frankly, take the armband from Lee and give it to someone else who will instill that sense of purpose into others. My concern with that action is that players will pout rather respond, but do it anyways.

    Soccer Doc, you've also reminded me of a company of ex special ops guys who work with teams to 'instill a championship culture'. They work with tons of Div I teams. Two keys to their message: 1. Leaders are held accountable for their results 2. Good teammates hold each other accountable for their actions. I don't see either on this team and haven't for some time. (The company is called The Program if you are interested.)
     
  11. VTSoccerFan

    VTSoccerFan Member+

    New England Revolution, Vermont Catamounts, NCFC
    United States
    Jun 28, 2002
    Cary, NC
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't see either in this organization and I never have.
     
  12. VTSoccerFan

    VTSoccerFan Member+

    New England Revolution, Vermont Catamounts, NCFC
    United States
    Jun 28, 2002
    Cary, NC
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At all levels of the Revolution franchise from owner on down to the fourth goalkeeper there are questions about motivation.
     
  13. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When you fail at your job, and aren't fired ...
    When you fail on the field, and aren't benched ...

    What's the motivation?
     
  14. Revs in 2010

    Revs in 2010 Member+

    Feb 29, 2000
    Roanoke, VA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There have been two players who stood out in my mind as leaders (with an honorable mention).

    Jermaine Jones, was never afraid on the field to call out a teammate who wasn't with the plan.
    Joe-Max Moore -- my all time favorite up-close-and-personal moment at the old 'Boro, "Imad what the hell are you doing, you've gotta hustle!"

    Shalrie Joseph gets the honorable mention -- he's unfortunately too quiet a personality type.

    And to veer off topic, there are two real leaders in "Goin up the rails on the crazy train," (The Ozzy award?) and those would be Joey Franchino and Walter Zenga.:D
     
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  15. VTSoccerFan

    VTSoccerFan Member+

    New England Revolution, Vermont Catamounts, NCFC
    United States
    Jun 28, 2002
    Cary, NC
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with the above.

    What I meant to express was that I do not see leaders (anybody) held accountable in the front office/ownership (business side) and I do not see people within the front office/ownership (business side) holding each other accountable.

    What I meant by motivation in my other post how would every person associated with the Revs answer the questions "Why are you here? Why are you part of the New England Revolution franchise in your current role? What is your vision for the future regarding your role, the club, and your role within the club?"
     
  16. Doublecard

    Doublecard Guest

    Bolding's mine. It always appeared to me that even when those who do their job well and go above and beyond get little reward or recognition. 2013 Jogo comes to mind. Thus, why put in the effort, when the results for both effectiveness and ineptitude are the same?
     
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  17. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    This isn't a typical career (first, it has a relatively short duration; second, most players actually enjoy the competition and have a lot of prided and competitiveness regardless of the compensation), so I think the effort vs. reward analysis doesn't fit.

    If the players don't feel like they are rewarded appropriately, the answer is to play better to move on to a better contract or different team/league. Half-@$$in'g it only sandbags their own prospects. Players are typically motivated by their next opportunity and to prolong their pro careers at the highest levels possible for as long as possible.

    I think the motivation issues here are that the players don't feel like the strategies being pursued will help them succeed (as a team and individually).

    ------------------

    Another observation: remember when Nguyen used to be fouled constantly? Not happening much lately - teams just don't seem to think he's too dangerous.
     
  18. dncm

    dncm Member+

    Apr 22, 2003
    Boston
    #68 dncm, Aug 24, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2016
    Have you seen the movie "The Damn United"? Highly recommend movie about Brian Clough and his time at Leeds - really good movie.

    Why related to your post? My bold above - sometimes they are simply waiting for the coach to get fired. Can't fire the players.

    And look at our players - Lee was the only one sniffing at Nats. Every other player is a journeyman MLS decent player under Heaps watch - their DNA (under Heaps' coaching/direction) is causing all of them to regress or look worse.
     
  19. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    Yes, I think some of them are.
    Well, in MLS, many of them you can (although at this point in the season their contracts are probably guaranteed).
     
  20. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In his case, he won Defender of the Year then took a 50% pay cut - ouch.
     
  21. Feldspar

    Feldspar Member+

    Nov 19, 1998
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Per MLS rules, the official roster freeze is Sept 15 this year. I don't see mention of a contract freeze date, but it could be a separate thing (or maybe case-by-case). It might even something that we've passed already. But I expect we'll see no mass firings after Sept 15, if we see them....
     
  22. Revs in 2010

    Revs in 2010 Member+

    Feb 29, 2000
    Roanoke, VA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Contracts used to guarantee on 7/1 (but I think that's the last CBA). This CBA has wording about Guaranteed and "Semi-Guaranteed" (I guess that's the warranty you get from a used car dealer?:eek:) Contracts, but there doesn't seem to be an associated date.
     

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