As the title pretty much explains: post any season by any player, and make your argument as to why that season by that player is overrated.
I wanted to start this thread with a season that, in my humble opinion, continues getting more and more overrated as time goes by. Cristiano "The Overrated One" Ronaldo 2009/2010: Cristiano Ronaldo 2009/2010 (Gonzalo Higuaín) {Sergio Ramos} Home vs. Deportivo Coruna / 2-1 *PK* / 3-2 win Away vs. Espanyol / 3-0 / 3-0 win Home vs. Xerez / 1-0 / 2-0 / 5-0 win Away vs. Villarreal / 1-0 / 2-0 win (Home vs. Valladolid / 4-2 / 4-2 win) (Home vs. Getafe / 1-0 / 2-0 / 2-0 win) (Away vs. Atletico Madrid / 3-0 / 3-2 win) (Home vs. Racing Santander / 1-0 / 1-0 win) Home vs. Almeria / 4-2 / 4-2 win (Home vs. Almeria / 2-2 / 4-2 win) (Away vs. Valencia / 1-0 / 2-1 / 3-2 win) Home vs. Zaragoza / 5-0 / 6-0 win (Home vs. Zaragoza / 1-0 / 4-0 / 6-0 win) (Home vs. Mallorca / 1-0 / 2-0 win) Home vs. Malaga / 1-0 / 2-0 / 2-0 win (Home vs. Espanyol / 3-0 / 3-0 win) Away vs. Xerez / 2-0 / 3-0 / 3-0 win Home vs. Villarreal / 1-0 / 6-2 win (Home vs. Villarreal / 3-1 / 4-2 / 6-2 win) Away vs. Tenerife / 4-1 *PK* / 5-1 win (Away vs. Tenerife / 1-0 / 2-0 / 5-1 win) Home vs. Sevilla / 1-2 / 3-2 win {Home vs. Sevilla / 2-2 / 3-2 win} Away vs. Valladolid / 1-0 *FK* / 4-1 win (Away vs. Valladolid / 2-0 / 3-0 / 4-1 / 4-1 win) (Home vs. Sporting Gijon / 3-1 / 3-1 win) Away vs. Getafe / 1-0 *FK* / 4-0 / 4-2 win (Away vs. Getafe / 2-0 / 3-0 / 4-2 win) (Home vs. Atletico Madrid / 3-1 / 3-2 win) Away vs. Racing Santander / 1-0 *PK* / 2-0 win (Away vs. Racing Santander / 2-0 / 2-0 win) Away vs. Almeria / 1-1 / 2-1 win Home vs. Valencia / 2-0 / 2-0 win (Home vs. Valencia / 1-0 / 2-0 win) Home vs. Osasuna / 1-1 / 3-2 / 3-2 win Away vs. Mallorca / 1-1 / 2-1 / 3-1 / 4-1 win (Away vs. Mallorca / 4-1 / 4-1 win) Home vs. Athletic Bilbao / 1-0 *PK* / 5-1 win (Home vs. Athletic Bilbao / 2-1 / 5-1 win) {Home vs. Athletic Bilbao / 3-1 / 5-1 win} Total: 26 goals / 20 open-play / 4 penalty kicks / 2 free kicks (Total: 27 goals / 27 open-play) Cristiano Ronaldo scored 26 goals, out of which 9 goals can be directly and/or indirectly credited for 15 points (5 wins). Compared to Higuain's 27 goals, out of which 14 goals can be directly and/or indirectly credited for 33 points (11 wins). As for Cristiano Ronaldo's assists, his assists and overall influence were not a consistent factor in the majority of the difficult games—the difficult games are as follows: Home vs. Deportivo Coruna 3-2 win (Kaka produced 2 assists, and Cristiano Ronaldo scored a PK won by Raul Gonzalez -- Kaka was probably or arguably the MOTM.) Away vs. Atletico Madrid 3-2 win (Cristiano Ronaldo did not play. When Cristiano Ronaldo did played vs. Atletico Madrid, the result was literally the same, 3-2 win, except that CR7 enjoyed the added benefit of playing at home.) Away vs. Barcelona 0-1 defeat (Defeat and CR7 thoroughly failed to impress.) Home vs. Almeria 4-2 win (Goal and assist by CR7. Goal and assist by Higuain.) Home vs. Sevilla 3-2 win (Scored a "poacher" type goal, but didn't do much else. Sergio Ramos scored a crucial header, and then Higuain assisted the 3-2 goal.) Home vs. Osasuna 3-2 win (Impressive dribbling goal by CR7, but not much besides that -- a MOTM performance arguably, but Higuain's perfect cross for the 3-2 goal should not go completely ignored, in fact, the assist was better than the goal.) Home vs. Atletico Madrid 3-2 win (Goal by Alonso and great assist by Alonso, and the 3-1 goal by Higuain -- MOTM was probably Alonso.) Home vs. Barcelona 0-2 defeat (Again failed to make an impression in El Clasico.) Away vs. Real Zaragoza 2-1 win (Contributed with two easy assists, but was not the MOTM by any stretch. Higuain was crucial to the 1-0 goal.) Bottom line: Cristiano Ronaldo's influence in La Liga was nothing special in terms of actual results. His dribbling runs are good and impressive for youtube, but when any sensible person analyzes the numbers more closely it becomes obvious that CR7 was not a crucial factor in the difficult games, and his total assists-plus-goals value is simply nowhere near good enough to compensate for the fact that Gonzalo Higuain's goals were a lot more important with regards to the club's league standing. The myth that "Cristiano Ronaldo carried an average Real Madrid throughout the 2009-10 season" is embarrassing—there's absolutely no shred of truth to it. The most outstanding thing about Cristiano Ronaldo 2009/2010, is how grossly underrated Higuain 2009/2010 is.
Am I missing something here? I have never really heard anyone say Ronaldo's first season was that great. Fair comment re Higuain though, I think he gets harshly treated, look at last season in Napoli and what he did and came nowhere in all the yearly awards.
I have heard a lot of CR7 fans talk about season 2009/2010 as an amazing season. I get the impression that that's the result of bad revisionism. Fans see that older CR7 won 3 Ballon d'Ors, and then they look back at the youtube videos of season 2009-10, and they see that CR7 was faster and could actually still produce dribbling runs, and then they readily assume that CR7 2009-10 was an amazing underrated player. The truth is, when you analyze his impressive skills in season 2009-10, his impressive skills do not actually contribute anything important in terms of actual results. I will offer one example of bad revisionism: http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2010/05/17/1928625/goalcom-special-la-liga-team-of-the-season-2009-10?utm_referrer=https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/fifa-player-of-the-year-2016.2038095/page-4 'CR9' justified his world record price tag and the burdensome title of the planet's most expensive footballer. Not only did he amass 26 goals in just 29 league appearances in his very first season at the Casa Blanca, but he single-handedly carried Madrid's title charge all the way to the final day of the season with a string of inspirational performances and crucial goals. The above is shameless propaganda/revisionism. CR7 did not single-handedly carried Madrid's title charge all the way to the final day of the season—you can easily tell that that claim is false, just by noticing the fact that CR7 played 29 games out of 38 league games. Additionally, looking at what CR7 offered against the better teams, he did not offered anything that Higuain himself did not offered. Cristiano Ronaldo's dribbling offered nothing important in any important game, his assists offered also nothing important in any important game, and his goal scoring ability offered much less than Gonzalo Higuain's goal scoring ability. The propaganda and revisionism highlighted above, is a classic example of corporations investing a lot of money in creating false equivalences around their most priced assets. Which is more or less why using 'sources' is basically pointless and useless when discussing CR7, because even when he clearly isn't great, the influence of money and power creates the fallacy/perception that he was great. I singled out season 2009-10, because far too often I've seen that season defined as some underrated masterpiece, when in truth it was an overrated season.
in 09/10 cr7 was awarded 17 motm awards in 35 games=50% of the games he played https://www.whoscored.com/Players/5583/History/Cristiano-Ronaldo his "overrated goal tally included 6 direct freekicks 7 legitimate solo goals where he dribbled at least 1-3 players volleys,headers,left foot finishes etc all in a 35 game season a season where he spent 2 months injured and had 2 red card suspensions
i'm with @carlito86 on this one. i honestly have no reason to believe that his 09/10 season was anything less than what he produced at manchester united, all things considered. i'm not saying it was exactly the same level but it wasn't far off. obviously he was going to a lower caliber team, so how much better would he have to perform to match any of his last 3 seasons at manchester united? when you compare manchester united's level vs real madrid in 09/10, then of course CR7 will not get as many chances to shine. however, he made the best of the team that he had and i have no reason to believe why his level went down when he left manchester in any case, i rate CR7's season 09/10 as a top season. and like carlito said, CR7 missed some time injured. however, i wouldn't call it a masterpiece.and to be honest, probably because he was not going to win trophies at such a caliber of a team that madrid were at. if i was gonna call CR7's season a masterpiece i would refer to his seasons at manchester and his 11/12 season at madrid.
an old clip you may or may not of seen starts at 0:36 after his remarable solo goal against villareal after only 1 min in sep 2009 la liga commentator/expert gerry Armstrong said if he carries on perforiming at this level he will by the end of the 09/10 season he will go down as one of the greatest players to ever grace Spanish football history and that he had already reached the heights he had set during his latter united years. I really cannot stress any more than I have been doing that in 09/10 cr7 was performing at a superlative level
superlative??? that's going overboard. i think most people who have a proper say in ronaldo's status will say that his level was the same at that of manchester united. no higher and no lower. when Cr7s career is all said and done, people will not be looking to his season in 09/10 as the season that made Cr7. however, i do think that it is exactly the same caliber he performed at during his manchester years
you see... you say CR7 is overrated but you still talk about him here soo... maybe he's not as overrated as you think?
i wouldn't say that necessarily. the reason there are forums like this is because we think much more critically about statements made in the general public. for example, many people in the mainstream media thought rio ferdinand was crazy when he did not put zidane in the top 10. honestly, i struggle putting him in the top 20 with conviction. the reason people think zidane is rated so highly is not because of his effectiveness but because of his style of play, which evokes plenty of emotion from the casual viewer. and emotion much more so then logic, is a much stronger driving force in humans. because of this, it causes people to look past the logic and go with their emotions. this is the same reason why someone like @leadleader makes topics such as these. so that we can look past the bullshit and get to the facts. i am one of those people who rated zidane as a top 10 quite easily, until i started a debate on this forum with @leadleader and @lessthanjake.
For a sensible discussion of this topic there must be some guidelines. I'm thinking of (first two the most important): Historically big names who won something big, without performing truly big. Potential examples: Cruijff's 1973 EC win, Maradona his 1989 UEFA Cup win. Big players who actually slightly under-performed with their club or team, or didn't come even close to win anything (coming close to a top finish in the league). Potential examples: I leave this open for you. Players with heavy publicity and/or manipulation machines behind them from an early age. Surefire examples: Beckenbauer, Maradona, Ronaldo Luis (not: Pelé). Carte blanche. Campaigns or seasons that are defined by moments. Examples: Carlos Alberto's wondergoal; Redondo's backheel; Gazza's tears. Players from the 'right' countries, whatever that might mean and along which sensible dimension that occurs. Classic example: tiny Uruguay has had five recipients of the highest FIFA award, politically peripheral Netherlands only one (JC14, and then as late as 2010 instead of the 1980s). Goals, goals, goals (even worse: ignoring that 30-40% might have been penalties). More goalzzzzz Amazing last ditch tackles; spectacular goalkeeping for a (domestically) dominant team. Follow the eyeballs, follow the money, follow the advertisers. Follow the pundits too. Something like that. Don't claim it to be complete but mental guidelines like that.
Cristiano Ronaldo 2009-10 is one of those players that was (and remains) impressive on the old youtube compilation, but when you begin to analyze his most impressive plays, it becomes obvious that the vast majority of his impressive skills offered nothing in terms of actual results in the league. He also missed 10 league games that season. Overrated, without a shadow of a doubt, in my opinion. Higuain was clearly better in terms of non-dribbling open-play goals. And Ronaldo's dribbling goals are only three dribbling-goals, two of which were meaningful, and one of which was just a goal in a game won by a three-goal-margin. And Cristiano Ronaldo's ability for assists was a relative non-factor, and definitely objectively underwhelming for a so-called winger i.e. wingers are expected to produce a lot more cross-assists. Away vs. Mallorca: 2004/05: 1-0 win 2005/06: 1-2 defeat 2006/07: 1-0 win 2007/08: 1-1 draw 2008/09: 3-0 win 2009/10: 4-1 win (3-1 dribbling goal) 2010/11: 0-0 draw 2011/12: 2-1 win 2012/13: 5-0 win 2013/14: Mallorca played Division B 2014/15: Mallorca played Division B Home vs. Osasuna: 2004/05: 1-0 win 2005/06: 1-1 draw 2006/07: 2-0 win 2007/08: 2-0 win 2008/09: 3-1 win 2009/10: 3-2 win (1-1 dribbling goal) 2010/11: 1-0 win 2011/12: 7-1 win 2012/13: 4-2 win 2013/14: 4-0 win 2014/15: Osasuna played Division B Away vs. Almeria: 2004/05: Almeria played Division B 2005/06: Almeria played Division B 2006/07: Almeria played Division B 2007/08: 3-1 win 2008/09: 1-1 draw 2009/10: 2-1 win (1-1 dribbling goal) 2010/11: 1-1 draw 2011/12: Almeria played Division B 2012/13: Almeria played Division B 2013/14: 5-0 win 2014/15: 4-1 win The above data are the 3 games where Cristiano Ronaldfo scored dribbling goals, against very inferior opponents it must be added. As for Cristiano Ronaldo's assists: Home vs. Almeria 4-2 win -Ronaldo 1-0 goal cross-assist / Ronaldo wins PK and then failed to score the PK / cross assist by Higuaín for Cristiano tap-in goal (4-2 goal) Away vs. Zaragoza 2-1 win -Higuain crucial to the 1-0 goal assist / Ronaldo *very easy* assists for 1-0 and 2-1 goals Home vs. Osasuna 3-2 win -Higuaín crucial cross-assist for the 3-2 goal / quality assist by Granero Away vs. Valladolid 4-1 win -Header assist by CR7 and *very lucky* deflected-shot-assist by Ronaldo. Away vs. Espanyol 3-0 win -Kaka assist for 1-0 goal / Kaka assist for 2-0 goal Home vs. Tenerife 3-0 win -Quality assist by Xabi Alonso Home vs. Mallorca 2-0 win -Great assist by Higuaín for the 2-0 goal. Home vs. Malaga 2-0 win -Quality low-cross-assist by Kaka Away vs. Xerez 3-0 win -Quality cross-assist by Kaka / another low-cross-assist by Kaka Home vs. Villarreal 6-2 win -PK assist by Higuaín (Kaka scored PK) / low-cross-assist by Ronaldo (Ronaldo was clearly off-side when he received the ball) / easy short-assist by Ronaldo (Kaka scored goal) / Ronaldo PK assist (Alonso scored PK) Away vs. Tenerife 5-1 win -Easy assist by Higuaín (Kaka goal) Home vs. Sevilla 3-2 win -Higuain assisted the 3-2 goal Home vs. Gijon 3-1 win -Deflected-free-kick-assist by Ronaldo / *very lucky* header assist by Ronaldo (Alonso scored the goal) / easy assist by Ronaldo (it actually was a solo goal by Higuaín) Home vs. Athletic Bilbao 5-1 win -Higuaín wins PK (Ronaldo scores PK) / Kaka short assist (Benzema) Away vs. Almeria 2-1 win -Easy assist by Higuaín (Van der Vaart 2-1 goal) Away vs. Racing Santander 2-0 win -Ronaldo wins PK and scores PK Away vs. Mallorca 4-1 win -2 amazing assists by Sergio Ramos (Ronaldo scored the 2 goals) Cristiano Ronaldo produced only 2 cross-assists. That's a rather unbelievable low amount of cross-assists for a so-called "winger." For reference: Gonzalo Higuain produced 2 cross-assists, literally the same amount as Ronaldo. Higuain produced 2 Penalty Kicks, compared to Ronaldo who produced 3 Penalty Kicks. In conclusion: Ronaldo produced slightly more assists than Higuain, thanks to the deflected-shots statistic, which itself resulted out of the fact that Ronaldo took a lot more shots than Higuain (added to the fact that Ronaldo also played more minutes than Higuain). Ronaldo, the so-called winger, produced more deflected-shot assists, than he produced cross-assists. On the other hand, Higuain produced more assists in the difficult games. Bottom Line: Cristiano Ronaldo does not have the assists, does not have the dribbling goals, does not have the open-play goals, does not have the free-kicks, to receive the level of praise for having "single-handedly carried Madrid throughout the season." That's false. Ronaldo missed 10 games in the league season, played more minutes than Higuain, produced the same amount of cross-assists as Higuain, produced 2 more dribbling goals than Higuain, produced 1 more PK than Higuain, scored 7 less open-play goals than Higuain, etc. There's absolutely nothing concrete that substantiate the outlandish claim that CR7 somehow "carried" Real Madrid 2009/10. Cristiano Ronaldo 2009/10 was another overrated season, by a player who produced several overrated seasons. Exactly my point: it was not far off if you ignore the fact that Ronaldo missed 10 games... But because Ronaldo is overall overrated, not being far off from his best, and additionally missing 10 league games, is actually definitely measurably overrated. Gonzalo Higuain scored 27 open-play goals, playing less minutes than Ronaldo... Had Higuain scored 6-10 PK goals, Higuain's goals statistic inflates to 33-37 goals i.e. Real Madrid 2009/10 was nowhere near as bad as you think they were. Cristiano Ronaldo 2009/10 was simply overrated, missed 10 league games, and did not make the difference in the Round of 16 at the Champions League. And furthermore, Manchester United continued to win the league without Ronaldo, including another Champions League Final appearance. It very much looks to me as though Manchester United (minus Ronaldo) was better than you're giving them credit for... And on the other hand, Real Madrid 2009/10 (minus Ronaldo) was also better than you're giving them credit for, as it becomes self-evident when you simply look at the fact that Real Madrid 2009/10 nearly won the league, despite the fact that Ronaldo missed 10 games, and despite the fact that Ronaldo was not at his absolute best in his first Liga season. And of course, Barcelona 2009/10 was one of the greatest clubs of all time, which means that Gonzalo Higuain 2009/10 is underrated and also Real Madrid 2009/10 is underrated. Cristiano Ronaldo 2008/09 (at Manchester United) was not a masterpiece in any way, shape, or form. Cristiano Ronaldo 2006/07, was that season truly a masterpiece? More and more, it looks to me as though Cristiano Ronaldo 2007/08 is looked at, as if it was Ronaldo's average form at Manchester United, when in truth 2007/08 was an exception to the rule - Ronaldo never, ever, replicated that form.
Who else was supposed to be the MOTM?? The comparatively boring Higuian who rarely ever played a full game because he had to share time with Benzema?? Cristiano Ronaldo 2009/10 winning a lot of MOTM awards in a team where only he was realistically expected to win the MOTM awards, does not actually prove much of anything that would oppose my own conclusion. Who could rival CR7 in Real Madrid? Higuain? Benzema? An injured and intermittent Kaka? Cristiano Ronaldo was always going to be the best player in his own team, but even then, he missed 10 league games, his assists were thoroughly disappointing for a so-called "superlative" winger, he produced just one more PK than Higuain, he scored 7 less open-play goals than Higuain, he played more minutes than Higuain, his open-play goals were nothing special for a player who played as centrally as he did (i.e. he was not an actual winger, by any definition), his dribbling goals were few and far between, his importance in the difficult games was statistically not better than Higuain's importance in the difficult games, etc. Cristiano Ronaldo 2009/10 is overrated, and it's clear, it isn't even difficult to grasp. Furthermore, MOTM awards are thoroughly worthless when you have the corporate power (money) that financed CR7's propaganda. There's just too much money riding in player's reputations (MOTM awards) and player's fitness (selective referee protection), to take MOTM awards seriously. The metric is nowhere near as accurate as it once was, if it ever was an accurate metric in the first place.
actually, you could make a case that all of his 3 dribbling goals were important in 09/10. Cr7 scoring a dribbling goal in order to make a game 3-1 makes the world of a difference. not only does it diminish any momentum or belief that the other team has to tie the goal, but even if the other team where to score a late goal, Real Madrid would still walk away with 3 points. it's kind of like saying that if messi had scored a goal against real madrid this season, 16-17, to make it 2-0, then the goal would not be considered important because it was not the winning goal. however, messi did not score and real madrid tied 1-1 in the 88th or 89th minute to take 2 points away from barcelona. and also, in general, i might discredit a player for producing against inferior opponents if that was the only time a player scored. but lets not forget that even inferior opponents like deportivo alaves or malaga can beat giants like Barcelona like they did this season. and it would have helped real madrid if Cr7 scored against an inferior opponent like Eiber this season when they tied 1-1 at the bernabau against an inferior team. generally, in league play, i wouldn't count that against a player. as far as assist are concerned, i honestly can't argue against that. he did not have nearly as many cross assist as in his previous years at manchester united if i'm not mistaken. so there is no argument here. i agree with you on this as well. no way in hell do i believe that CR7 ''carried'' the team. there is a big difference between putting up good numbers and ''carrying'' a team. there is not enough evidence that CR7 either scored or assisted in enough important goals or performed on a level that carried the momentum of his team in order for me to say that he ''carried'' the team. and when he did miss those 10 or so games, real madrid was not in dire need of him. i don't think you can take this away from Cr7. remember, sir alex proved himself to be a good coach regardless of the players he head (meaning he was getting good results with several different players). you can't judge manchester united necessarily when he left, because it very well could be that the tendencies and tactics of the team could have been adjusted and changed to better suit the new team without CR7. had they continued to play in the exact same manner as when CR7 was there then we would be able to notice the difference. otherwise, we could easily say that any player that ever played for ferguson was exactly the same as any other player and no player was more important than the next. and this is because alex ferguson is one of the very few coaches that is very good at adapting unlike someone like wenger, who may actually appear to make henry look like a more important or big time player than he actually was. and if you stand by your statement, then we could easily say that Henry was faar better than CR7 in the EPL. because arsenal was shit when Henry and Co. left, relatively speaking. but that has more to do with wenger and his deficiencies as a winning coach rather than the colossal affect that henry had on arsenal. i agree. though i think Cr7 was great in 08/09. i wouldn't say it was a masterpiece. i mean, he had good numbers, but a masterpiece involves being the center point of your team than merely the best player on your team or the player with the most statistics. to be honest, it's reall hard to say what is a masterpiece and what isn't unless we specifically describe what a 'masterpiece' is, because it's too objective. if any season by Cr7 was to be judged as a 'masterpiece' i would say 07/08 and 11/12