Over Land and Sea (And Leicester! Uhh...and Burnley! And...TBD)-The Other Teams Thread

It's a pretty valid criticism of AA (as unbelievably preach as Thomas's dissents/concurrences are on this issue).

The criticism I prefer to make of AA is that it doesn't address the underlying problem. The underlying problem, of course, is to remedy the effects of past discrimination (and not "diversity" as is advanced in court). Cherry picking a few students in higher education does little to address the real underlying socioeconomic issues.

 

The Rooney Rule only applies to the NFL.

 

Plus, Wenger, Mourinho, and Martinez? He seems to be assuming that any non English European is a minority.

 

I personally think the key is to do it on a purely socio-economic level, which is so ingrained with racism anyway.

Yeah, I was confused by that one, and the notion that Citeh are run by a minority because they're owned by Abu Dhabi is pretty weird.

 

Wouldn't work since there are way more poor whites than blacks anyway simply due to the respective size of the populations.

 

That's what a lot of schools do now - a lot of schools want poor black kids from inner city backgrounds.

That's not the point I'm making though. What I'm saying is that preferential admissions in education is a bandaid on top of another bandaid on top of a bandaid. They don't address the underlying reasons for underachievement as a result of historical discrimination: poverty, lack of exposure to education, coming from broken homes, crime and the other adverse effects of living in bad neighborhoods, and the many other huge disadvantages that kids from poor backgrounds face. Picking the occasional kid that does actually manage to graduate from high school and is otherwise qualified to go to a decent college ignores the thousands of others who never had a shot to begin with.

 

BINGO.

 

As goofy as it sounds, "Appalachian white" is a preferred minority group in plenty of universities; it can certainly work.

Oh, on a general level I absolutely agree. But that's basically what the Rooney rule is - preferential treatment for minorities at elite institutions.

 

There should be more of an effort to get black and Asian people into football and coaching full stop

Asian population in the UK is very under represented in football, it is subtle unconscious racism as nicephorus has said

I love the nba because u have coaches from all walks of life and race represented at every level in the structure of teams, I don't watch other American sports but is this the same in nfl, nhl and mlb?

 

It's definitely still an issue in the NFL and MLB, while hockey is a bit unique since there are so few black players, so you wouldn't expect a lot of black managers.

The real acid test for US sports, in my opinion, will be at the college football level, where there has been less progress than one would think despite a massively greater amount of jobs available, although a few recent higher profile hires have been made (Penn State and Texas).

 

I don't believe so, but then again I don't watch much american sports

 

I assume that we aren't getting each other's point. Mine is, if the goal is to aid those groups who historically have been unfairly excluded from opportunities in the US, then race should be a factor. A socio-economic litmus test wouldn't help since most who would pass that test would still the part of the majority. There are many poor whites who are just that - poor and white - but that doesn't mean they have been denied the chance for advancement or have any serious barriers for upward mobility. Affirmative action is trying to make the playing field level. Your test wouldn't address that; it would just help poor people in general - most of which are white.

 

Since when does being born and raised in Chile not qualify you as being hispanic?

 

Not at all, just pointing out that there are high-profile examples of those succeeding who are "different" from traditional English footballing culture.

I also find it amusing that you consider Everton to be a "big" club...

 

Not sure what your point is here. Is Charlotte any less a minority-owned and run franchise because Michael Jordan is wealthy?

 

John McCain was born in Panama, does that make him a "person of color" too?

 

I don't think Pellegrini would consider himself a person of color. Nor would most people.

That an Abu Dhabi sheik owns Man Citeh has nothing to do with race relations of British minorities.

 

No, I get your point; my point is that it can be tailored to work by limiting racial preferences within socio-economic groups the way is already done for some whites.
Incidentally, since the bigger problem is probably inequality rather than racism (though racism is a problem on top of inequality), eliminating inequality would "lift all boats", so to speak.

 

I consider him a person of color.

That color being white.

 

Everton's played more games in the First/Premier divisions than anyone else. I would call them a big club.

 

100% this.

while there are more poor white people than any other race based on raw numbers, there is a higher proportion of poor black people than any other in this country.

That has a lot to do with racism in the US.

 

I suspect that you're being facetious here, but on the off chance that your point is being raised in good-faith I would point out that McCain is a natural born American citizen, and not Panamanian. However, if he had started life as a Panamanian citizen and then later became naturalized, he would be considered Hispanic and eligible for all sorts of AA and minority set-aside programs.

 

And if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

 

Pithy, but vulgar.

There is no question under your proffered hypothetical of John McCain being born Panamanian of whether he would be considered Hispanic, the answer is yes.

OMB definition:
"Hispanic or Latino: A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race."

Most states mimic the OMB definition for determining eligibility for their analogous minority preferential treatment programs.

As is typical of the federal government, there is not a consistent definition, so some agencies go so far as to explicitly include the affluent Western European countries of Portugal and Spain: "SBA has defined “Hispanic American” as an individual whose ancestry and culture are rooted in South America, Central America, Mexico, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, or the Iberian Peninsula, including Spain and Portugal."

The current trend is to move to an even less objective measurement, simply relying on a self-identification regime: you're Hispanic if you say you are.

Interestingly, under US law, at least 5 of the 20 EPL clubs (25%) would be considered to have minority managers: Chelsea, Man City, Sunderland, Everton, Tottenham.

This represents a better record than the NFL, where only 5 of 32 teams (15.6%) would be considered to have minority managers, despite implementation of the Rooney Rule.

 

It's timely that the coaching topic came up as I was wondering at how the prem seems a closed door the way the same names keep popping up when a manager gets fired and hired. Such an old boys club that it made old red nose question Wenger's appointment back then. I'm assuming he had friends he'd rather see in the job.