Our Best Eleven [2017]

Discussion in 'Philadelphia Union' started by drewuke, Feb 9, 2017.

  1. Dills

    Dills Moderator
    Staff Member

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jun 6, 2006
    Southampton|PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think that's his style, though.
     
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  2. Dulliwhig

    Dulliwhig Member+

    Nov 12, 2009
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed, but isn't a lot of that a result of lack of resources at clubs for whom he has worked?
     
  3. Dills

    Dills Moderator
    Staff Member

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jun 6, 2006
    Southampton|PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Truth, but he was also touted as having experience finding diamonds in the rough using those limited resources. Moneyball and all that jazz.
     
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  4. LuckyStriker

    LuckyStriker Member+

    Favorite club? a German one..........
    Apr 14, 2010
    in exile-Statute of Limitations yet to expire
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agree with you on Sugarman. He's the problem. If he wasn't in charge, neither would Jim be. I can't blame scouting unless I can blame Albright. I have no problem with that either btw........
    Be careful what you wish for though.

    The fanbase wanted this team, not any particular owner. They begged the league, and Garber granted their request. THEN they looked about for interested soccer parties in the area who might have the funds to invest. Bueller..........Bueller.........Bueller.......

    They came up with a hipster investor from out of town and 2-time MLS failure who apparently were the only ones willing to answer the call to FRONT the franchise. Talk about putting the cart before the horse ! Has this ever happened with any other major club in Philly before? I hate what the Union are, what they have become-but I can't honestly say I'm surprised by it.

    There is no relegation in MLS, but with so many on deck and willing to pay there well could be relocation in Philly's future. Academies can be rebuilt elsewhere, as an added bonus more available developing talent for the rest of the league to sift. We all know how much they love a good draft anyway,.....

    Sugar will sell and make back his gambit +. The lawyers will settle with Chet. Don't see Graham stepping up to that plate. Absent divine intervention the tea leaves say you're doomed to dream at your barstools again. Enjoy all of our complaints while we have time to make them. Jay = Nero.

    " They don't have any money, and they don't know what they're doing.".

    As an aside; Gaddis is fast, but isn't a player.
    Alberg is a player, but isn't a creator. He's a scorer when motivated.......and he's no longer motivated....and I don't blame him for that one bit.
     
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  5. drewuke

    drewuke Member+

    Jul 19, 2012
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    NYRB and Dallas proved you can win in MLS without spending.

    Seattle, Toronto, and now Atlanta are proving you can win by spending.

    The Union have always proved you can fail by claiming moneyball and then spending stupid amounts on poor decisions.
     
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  6. Dulliwhig

    Dulliwhig Member+

    Nov 12, 2009
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, but very often he purchased players for significant amounts and was able to sell them for considerable profits. Here, he doesn't have the working capital to even attempt that. I still think that if given the opportunity to invest in players, we would not only realize a better product on the field, but Ernie's track record has proven successful in generating large profits for Ownership. And it doesn't have to be a $7M or even $3M transfer fee. I would think he could do very well in the $1M-$2M range if diversified among say 3-4 players. You need one or two of those to pan out into a sizable future transfer fee. So we could still be a middling spending team while applying moneyball principles. We just need an Owner who doesn't think investing $1M is a make or break investment.
     
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  7. thomas19064

    thomas19064 Member+

    Apr 29, 2008
    Delco
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    .<3.<3.<3.<3.<3.<3.<3 [​IMG]
     
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  8. Tyr

    Tyr Member+

    Nov 7, 2009
    Lawrenceville
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The problem is that these players don't fit together. Fafa and Gaddis don't fit a possession system, Alberg and Ilsinho do not fit a counter or physical system, and Sapong and Gooch do not fit a possession or, arguably, a counter system. None of our pieces fit together coherently.

    We don't need to spend millions for success. David Guzman cost Portland $325k. He would have been a perfect fit for our needs. I believe Rommell Quito was a free transfer, and Alberth Elis seems to be on the cheap as well. While a cheapskate owner is an issue, Earnie needs to stop signing bargain bin Europeans and friends of his.

    Depth won't matter when the starters aren't good enough.

    But have we built depth successfully? We are blowing a load of cash to use Alberg for 5 minutes each game, and we have a bunch more money tied up in Ilsinho and Edu who are always injured and who probably don't fit the team when healthy. That's a ton of money to spend on backups. Additionally, how many international spots are tied up in these backups? Alberg, Ayuk, Elliot, Herbers/Ilsinho, A. Jones, and Gili are all taking international spots while comfortably cast as backups. Yaro could potentially be added to this list if Oneywu retains the job. That's at least 6-7 spots being wasted on non-starters. This is not a sustainable foundation we can build upon.

    Additionally, it goes back to the point that our roster is configured in a way that makes no tactical sense, so we have depth for roles that do not fit together.
     
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  9. thomas19064

    thomas19064 Member+

    Apr 29, 2008
    Delco
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    This is the theme of the year for me. It was pretty obvious this is what would happen going into the season, and the early results are proving it to be true.
     
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  10. Dulliwhig

    Dulliwhig Member+

    Nov 12, 2009
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree that we are forcing tactics upon players that lack the skillset to play in the system. I think right off the bat, they've got to get rid of Alberg and Ilsinho. You need a Piatti, Diaz, Valeri, Higuain, Morales. Most likely a South American playmaker.

    Here is what they average over the past 4 seasons:
    Iguain - 8.5 goals, 7 assists
    Valeri - 9.25 goals, 10.5 assists
    Morales - 7.25 goals, 9.5 assists

    Or last 2 seasons:
    Piatti - 13 goals, 7 assists
    Diaz - 6.5 goals, 11.5 assists

    Between these players, you have an average of 9 goals and 9 assists from some of the better playmakers in the league. And that doesn't include Dos Santos or Giovinco, who surpass these numbers. In addition to that, you have the best American playmakers in Kjlestan, Felheiber and Nguyen who have produced similar or even better numbers than the aforementioned South American players.

    Point is, having a 9 goal, 9 assist guy is not a luxury in this league. It is par for the course.

    Even Barnetta wasn't in that category. He had 5 goals and 6 assists in one year and he's arguably our best field player of all time. Alberg was our hope for one of these types and he can't do it. And while Bedoya is a good all-around player, he is not in the mould of any of these players. And that is where we are lining him up. And this is why we are an average team at best.
     
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  11. ScottyMac26

    ScottyMac26 Member+

    Jan 13, 2012
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Jay will sell when the valuation he's looking for is met. Probably, when an ownership group who gets shut out of the expansion musical chairs still wants in. It smells like leverage and will spike value. I think moving the team is less likely. They're in year 8 on a 50 year lease and had about $45M in equity in the stadium (50/50 cash/loan -ish). I don't see Jay and his crew moving off $25M in cash w/o a way to extract that value. Also, he's not in it for the love of sports, this is an investment vehicle. We may as well be a condo building. When the MLS expansion market peaks, he'll sell to one of the also-rans who'll luck into a pre-built infrastructure (well, stadium anyway) who want to run a team. Single entity is the best hedge fund out there. Jay has taken his $25M expansion fee and watched it grow sixfold.

    Why would he spend capital to improve his team? The club is in for, what $4.5M in salary budget? The league dividends back $1M in AM from tv deals and whatnot, there you go Earnie, play with that. Don't ask me for cash, that would be like throwing good money after good. If the team finishes a few places higher, it won't substantially alter the club valuation. He's going to hold out for $200M, and spend his days in the Hamptons forgetting he ever owned a soccer team.
     
  12. thomas19064

    thomas19064 Member+

    Apr 29, 2008
    Delco
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree - he's staying pat until expansion is complete or until a new CBA/league decision opens up the flood gates and he's basically forced to start spending money.... if the Salary Cap gets high enough and it includes a Salary Floor that Sugarman doesn't want to meet then he will look to sell.
     
  13. Dills

    Dills Moderator
    Staff Member

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jun 6, 2006
    Southampton|PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not an apples-to-apples comparison though. He's never been hampered by the limitations within MLS and its salary cap/budget. No matter how much the Seattles, Atlantas, Torontos of this league can throw at marquee players, they still have to work within the league's financial boundaries. Earnie's CV contains experience at clubs surviving on smaller budgets ... smaller budgets compared to those within the relative league (or country, or continent).

    Perhaps, then, the true measure of Earnie's "success" here will be what kind of profit he can pull in from selling off Rosenberry, Blake, Jones, etc.
     
  14. drewuke

    drewuke Member+

    Jul 19, 2012
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    I don't know where to start. :unsure:
     
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  15. Dills

    Dills Moderator
    Staff Member

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jun 6, 2006
    Southampton|PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cheese Fries, even the reigning GKotY, a guy who'd be the first one I'd ink in (not a No. 2 Ticonderoga here) has regressed.
     
  16. Tyr

    Tyr Member+

    Nov 7, 2009
    Lawrenceville
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah . . . I am struggling to find a way to make this team work. Sticking with the 4-2-3-1, we badly need an actual defensive midfielder in the lineup who can stop the bleeding. To accomodate for that, the only ideas I have are to play Haris at the 10 or Bedoya on the right. Maybe the former will work? He has decent ball skills and is the best passer on the team.
     

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