Other Teams' Results [R]

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by KMJvet, Mar 8, 2014.

  1. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I phrased it in the wrong way. It's certainly not the only problem, however, you'd still want to cast as wide a net as possible for players, if possible.

    But you're absolutely right in that we don't do a very good job of developing talent currently. A big part of that is just cultural. Soccer just isn't as popular here as other sports, the financial incentives to play the game into adulthood were pretty low, and there was a lot of time to catch up on.

    The other part of it, I'd argue, is that pay to play programs just simply don't do a good job of developing players. They aren't really integrated directly with pro teams, they were largely geared toward getting players into college programs, which are becoming increasingly irrelevant for pro careers in the US, and it's kind of a crapshoot on the actual quality of coach you are getting so who knows if what you're being taught is actually going to help you be a better soccer player.
     
  2. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    What you observed, to my mind, is caused by a recent American middle class cultural phenomenon, in which kids by and large no longer play unsupervised by adults. Recent immigrant communities appear less afflicted, but of course they are less likely to be able to afford to participate in the expensive youth soccer system. The two kids you observed seem to have been an exception to the larger cultural admonition against unsupervised play.

    I could care less about developing the US national soccer team, but I do care that American kids cannot play and develop self-reliance and leadership skills in the same way that kids of my generation could.
     
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  3. DotMPP

    DotMPP 'Quakes fan in Stumptown

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jun 29, 2004
    SE Portland, OR
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My Jr H.S. in the mid '70s had soccer, but was coached by dolts who cut you if you had not played AYSO. (I was cut from the 7th grade team, played a season of AYSO and then made the 8th grade team). The H.S. had a Varsity, J.V. and a freshman soccer team (but no girl's teams so there were a couple who played on the Freshman team). We were coached by USF alumni. The H.S. had girl's teams the next year though.

    Cupertino, CA in a nutshell.
     
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  4. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    My junior high and high school in suburban Buffalo in the late 1970s had both boys and girls soccer teams. We even scrimmaged the girls on occasion. My high school coach was a surly former minor league baseball player who repeatedly bemoaned having missed his shot at the big leagues due to injury. He was a dolt because, I realized later in life after inhabiting these boards, he actually knew nothing about soccer tactics. He made a great drill sergeant (think of General Patton coaching high school soccer), however, and we were the best-conditioned team in the league. And it helped that we had lots of great soccer players (I wasn't among them), so we won league titles based on sheer talent and endurance.
     
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  5. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  6. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  7. bsman

    bsman Member+

    May 30, 2001
    MadCity
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Sorry for the long post following, but this has to be said:

    Until very recently, at 45 a referee automatically lost his or her FIFA credential. While that has changed, there are additional requirements for physical and medical testing that can be demanded by FIFA, which probably makes the process of retaining a FIFA badge onerous, given that the requirements on FIFA referees (in terms of required training, monitoring of biometrics during workouts and games, etc.) are already (IMO) way too high for people who are (at least in the US) required to have a "real job", because in the US being a referee is a hobby, rather than a profession.

    If USSF decides to treat refereeing as a profession rather than hobby, this may change, but right now, the pool of potential National and FIFA referees is limited by the requirements placed on them by the Federation, which aren't moderated by sufficient pay (not to mention no benefits) conferred by USSF. I recall having many discussions with MLS referees on this topic. State, National and FIFA referees are required to travel on their own penny to attend training sessions, combines, and tournaments. Notably, I remember former National (and FIFA assistant) referee Chris Strickland saying (in regards to MLS referees): "When you pay peanuts, you get monkeys". I believe this opinion is not uncommon.

    In many - it not all or most - other countries, being a FIFA referee confers a comfortable salary and benefits, but in the US, almost all of our FIFA referees do this as a hobby. As a comparison, NFL, MLB, and NBA officials' salaries START in the low-six-figures and go up from there, as well as being provided generous benefits. I think I can confidently state that there are no referees in the US making six figures from their officiating. As an example, over the past year, I refereed over 150 high-level youth and high school games, and made in the mid-four figures from refereeing before expenses (uniforms, assessments, required classes and licenses, etc.) Most MLS center referees are paid under $1K per game. Regardless of what USSF would have you believe, referees in the US are not professionals, not respected by the Federation, and although a necessary part of the game are totally hung out to dry. This has to change.
     
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  8. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    MLS has been able to keep spending on officiating down for a very long time, which has hurt the game here significantly. It's seemingly gotten worse in the last few years, but that could be just me paying closer attention.

    But pro sports leagues in general have been trying to reduce how much they spend on officiating for a long time, too. The NFL had that infamous start to a season about five years ago with scab refs because they couldn't come to terms with the union. It was a predictable disaster.

    MLS seems completely unapologetic about how badly some of the refs botch games in the league and only try to cover it up in the most cartoonish way possible: implementing VAR and thus highlighting how bad some of the calls have been, and creating PRO, a PR machine designed to make fans think they care about officiating when they clearly don't. God forbid they do the most obvious thing and provide a living wage to professionals who are crucial to the sport and its perceived fairness.
     
  9. bsman

    bsman Member+

    May 30, 2001
    MadCity
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    BTW - AFAIK, there is still no CBA between PRO (i.e. MLS) and PSRA (Professional Soccer Referees Association), and I understand the parties are still far apart. It is not at all unlikely that the 2019 season will commence with no agreement in place, and scab referees on the field...
     
  10. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    MLS has been there before as well not all that long ago and it was also a disaster, too. I expect a very rocky season for MLS overall. I think Garber's ability to talk out of both sides of his mouth is going to come back to haunt him a bit. With more fans and exposure comes more scrutiny.

    The whole Columbus debacle exposed the genuine lack of care given about fans (and in same cases seemingly outright contempt) by the league's owners for those who cared to pay attention. And MLS cares even less about its refs than it does about its fans, so this could paint MLS in a very bad light and turn off some fans. My interest in MLS as a league has definitely waned the more I've learned about how it operates. That's true for me and all pro sports, though.
     
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  11. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    The owner!

     
  12. Futbol_Head

    Futbol_Head Member+

    Manchester United
    Aug 18, 2007
    Bay Area, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Man, don't sleep on the Rapids. Rubio, Kamara, Acosta, Mezquida, Rosenberry... They are quietly putting a decent looking team together. That said, I can't believe they're wasting DP money on Tim Howard. Gotta cut him loose.
     
  13. Eddie Stiel

    Eddie Stiel Member

    Sep 27, 2011
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    PRO and PSRA have a tentative agreement, which is quite a relief in our 100% union household.

    https://www.fmcs.gov/fmcs-statement...l-soccer-referees-association-contract-talks/
     
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  14. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  15. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Pretty sure there's a whole thread on this in News and Analysis.
     
  16. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  17. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    de Gea is arguably the best keeper in the world. And if people think a manager doesn't matter that much, look what Ole Gunnar has done at ManU. I never cared for The Special One, (never thought he was that special!), but Solskjaer is undefeated since taking over. Same players, different attitude!
     
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  18. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  19. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    LOL. The Chinese have been ripping off American IP of all sorts for awhile, but the Quakes' crest is a bridge too far!!! :)

    Tianjin is a nice adaptation, especially with the Chinese lettering. Quakes should retaliate by selling Tianjin shirts in their own merchandise shop. (I'd buy several.)
     
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  20. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't think the Quakes could win an IP case on the grounds that it would be easy for the defendant to show there is nothing intellectual about the Quakes. :p:p
     
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  21. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
  22. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    EPL own goals...

     
  23. jetdog9

    jetdog9 Member+

    Nov 14, 2007
    Bay Area, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  24. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought that was really strange, especially after Garber just announced that MLS needs to be a selling league. I guess they couldn’t really sell Josef Martinez. Maybe ATL asked too much, or maybe Martinez was too old (25), plus he already had a disappointing run in Europe.

    I think he will continue to do well in MLS, with or without Almiron. The way Martinez plays reminds me a lot of Carlos Ruiz (El Pescadito). Not the flopping part, but the way Josef knows exactly where to go on the field to be in position for the strike. Plus he is fairly relentless. But I also thought it was worrying how his production dropped off tremendously once he broke the record. I had expected him to score 40+ goals. It just makes me wonder if he can really stay motivated with a 5-year contract.
     

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