Other Teams' Results [R]

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by KMJvet, Mar 8, 2014.

  1. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #6076 falvo, Jun 10, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018
    Patrick Vieira has been hired by Nice. Interested to see how he does. He was pretty one dimensional at NYCFC, but overall he was still one of the better foreign coaches in MLS even though he never won anything.

    Patrick Vieira leaves NYCFC to join French giants Nice - New York Post

    Patrick Vieira: NYCFC coach leaves for OGC Nice | SI.com

     
  2. SoccerMan94043

    SoccerMan94043 Member+

    May 29, 2003
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Whatever that dimension is, I'll take it.
     
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  3. bsman

    bsman Member+

    May 30, 2001
    MadCity
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Agreed. We are 0-1-3 vs NYCFC all-time.
     
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  4. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    From Matt Doyle:

    Vieira has built a winner in the Bronx, and installed an ethos as to how they play and who they play. This team – like Atlanta – emphasizes, young, skilled, fast, attacking soccer. They are smart and ruthless, and under Vieira became a team that wanted to (and often did) use the ball to pull opposing defenses apart.

    Sometimes it came back to bite him. Sometimes he should've been a bit more flexible, both in terms of tactical choices and personnel choices. But in a league where teams and styles are often pretty cookie-cutter, NYCFC under Vieira have stood out. They have been great to watch, they've won a ton of games, and if he's indeed leaving, I'll miss having him in the league.

    And that's his legacy right there: He built a fun team with a meaningful identity.


    :cry: This is what I'd like the Quakes to be (see especially the bold parts), but right now, we are far, far from it. We could at least start working on the "young" part. And even if we find a different way, it was be nice if we were at least somewhat "fun" and with a "meaningful identity".
     
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  5. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Yes, but we won the xG back in March. :)
     
  6. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
  7. bsman

    bsman Member+

    May 30, 2001
    MadCity
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes

    Yeah, but that hardly compares with skippering teams in the mighty Allsvenskan and twice winning the Svenska Cupen!


    ;)
     
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  8. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #6083 falvo, Jun 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018
    I feel bad for Jason Kreis. I recall reading just a few years ago how he was at a crossroads when he was fired from nycfc in 2015. He said then he didn’t know if or when he would be getting another job and started thinking about doing other things.

    At 45 years of age, he is now at the same point he was then. Makes you wonder why he quit RSL where he was hailed a genius. With the usl expanding, he may get other opportunities but I’m thinking his time in MLS like Frank Yallop and Dom, could be over. Not a great position to be in at a fairly young age especially when all you have done your whole life was playing and coaching.
     
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  9. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
  10. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Last night I went to the Men in Blazers book tour show in SF*. Billy Beane was their guest, and he waxed on about how he loves soccer now. He really admires that soccer players are so athletic. He is a part owner of Barnsley, and he consults on soccer analytics to a Dutch (?) club. He said he always chooses young players over experienced. They asked him when he got into football/soccer. He said in 2002 or so, he went to England for a weekend trip and noticed all the emotion about football. He figured with that emotion, people must be making a lot of mistakes. So he started getting into it.

    He only mentioned the Quakes once, when he went on to say, in his love of football story, that this was just before ownership bought the Quakes.

    * In case you want to know, the #MiBAcrossAmerica show wasn’t worth the $40 per seat. My guess is that about 700 people attended.
     
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  11. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Beane's interest in soccer is pretty well known, even back as far as the money all days. There's been a lot of speculation about how things would have gone down had he gotten involved with the Quakes. I suspect it wouldn't have made much difference in the middle 2000s, but who knows?

    I'd argue that his hands on involvement in the A's has been either quite minimal or at the very least, it isn't obvious that he's been doing much of anything there for a few years.

    I'd have liked to see him ply his trade with the Quakes back in 2008 since I didn't care one bit for Doyle, however in 2018, I doubt he's far ahead of of any other good GM type operator, and the opportunities to exploit serious inefficiencies in pay in MLS is quite limited, as we all know.
     
  12. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I don't feel all that bad for him. He had a good career as a player, had a good run as a coach, and it's appearing as if his actual coaching qualities don't match the current level of the league.

    Maybe both NYFC and Orlando failed to back him properly, but given NYFC's more recent successes and the relative amount of player quality that Orlando has, the evidence is starting to mount that the praise of Kreis was, at best, overstated.

    It doesn't help that he had a pretty poor way of communicating his frustrations with the general public and press. He isn't a very likeable personality, so it can be hard to be empathetic.

    The guy will find something to do in soccer for a while yet. If Kinnear and Schmidt can stay in the league this long, I think Kreis will get another chance. If Stahre really does go bust, I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up in San Jose.
     
  13. bsman

    bsman Member+

    May 30, 2001
    MadCity
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Not as long as our GM exhibits this trait:

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
  15. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
  16. bsman

    bsman Member+

    May 30, 2001
    MadCity
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Just saw the last 15” of the Altanta/Portland match, and compared to last night’s match it looked like a totally different (and superior) level.
     
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  17. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    He means that, unlike baseball players, they are athletes who actually have to get in shape in order to play their game.
     
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  18. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    if you remember the book Moneyball, Billy Beane was quoted as saying that he was the best athlete in the A’s fieldhouse. So I think overall, regardless of sport, that’s what Beane was initially judged on, and that’s what Beane looks at. But in the case of Moneyball, he purposely selected the least-athletic players, based on their ability to get on base.
     
  19. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    #6094 JazzyJ, Jun 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
    I think the point of Beane being "best athlete" in Moneyball is that it didn't matter, i.e. you don't have to be "athletic" in the way we normally think of athletic in order to be effective in baseball. IIRC the book also went on and on about a really unathletic catcher or 1st baseman who Beane sought after - to prove that point in the book. Seems to me his last name was Brown?

    There was also a lot about Nick Swisher, not so much for not being athletic but for being kind of simple and carefree. He didn't go up there thinking too much, which was apparently another issue with Beane and his baseball career. He was thinking too much rather than just being in the moment and reacting. Swisher had a pretty good career and played for the Yankees, etc.
     
  20. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Yeah, it's not so much that he purposefully looked to "unathletic" players, it's that he tried to widen the net of players that could be productive by not immediately dismissing those that didn't fit the traditional model of a baseball player, reason being that those players don't necessarily end up being good, like himself. The other major component is that players like himself would have already been scouted heavily and thus would be more difficult and expensive to get.

    People really overemphasize the whole on base percentage thing. OBP, or more specifically, walking, was just an example of a skill that contributed to offense that could be overlooked or a bit undervalued in players due to other factors. It wasn't really what the book was about at all.

    Jeremy Brown is an interesting case because he did not go on to be successful in the majors, and that could have possibly been predicted based on more traditional evaluation methods. You never really know how someone is going to perform until they do it.

    Soccer's traditional evaluation metrics are so obvious that it seems like you have to get really granular with regard to the other pieces, and I don't know that anything has come out to the public that has a proven track record of predicting good players. So many variables with quality of league, etc. It's a weird game.
     
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  21. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    You cannot measure heart.
     
  22. SoccerMan94043

    SoccerMan94043 Member+

    May 29, 2003
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
     
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  23. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I know they are only a fourth year team but despite all of their superstars, NYCFC hasn’t won anything yet.
     
  24. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Or Atlanta. Or LAFC.
     
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  25. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I guess the German Federation data-crunchers missed that chart. :)
     

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