Orange, the rebuild starts now

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by feyenoordsoccerfan, Oct 11, 2017.

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  1. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    Not many good/great players can turn into good coaches. Can count them on fingers:
    1. Cruyff
    2. Guardiola
    3. Mario Zagalo
    4. Beckenbauer
    5. Ancelotti
    6. Simeone
    7. Rijkaard
    8. Zidane?

    The rest of great coaches are mediocre or average players and the rest of great players turn coach are mediocre coaches (Keane, Souness, Maradona, Stoichkov...)
     
  2. Yeah, of course I know it's two years old, but it is interesting to see how wrong (again) the outside world was with announcing our final break down. That's why I searched it to post it in todays light.
     
  3. But how much of that can we attribute to bail out by the quality of the players?
    He hasnot been back in coaching since and I guess he realised himself he's not a good coach.
     
    Brilliant Dutch repped this.
  4. Now the current look at the Orange team from abroad:
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/48457481
    Netherlands v England: How the Dutch responded to their national team 'crisis'
    By Alex Bysouth

    BBC Sport
     
    Orange14 repped this.
  5. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Until he proves himself with a lesser club I'd say the same of Zidane
     
  6. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    Good article, well-written. What's really cool and what I truly like about this current Oranje team is that the senior leaders (specifically Van Dijk, Blind, and Wijnaldum) came from a very humble beginning. They were not highly touted, got fair share of criticism, even almost dismissed - but somehow managed to turn the tide and rise to the rank. This kind of resilient and never-die attitude help with the balance of the team. Ego is not part of the DNA of this team, in the absence of the so-called wonderkids... the Sneijders, Vaarts, Van Persies, Seedorfs, etc. I think Koeman knows and acknowledges this as well. Even Depay in Oranje has seemingly matured a long way, and indeed performs well, when his number is called.

    The future is indeed bright Orange.
     
  7. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    So what happens to Dest situation. He definitely has shown there is more to come from him as the season goes on. plus he can play at LB as well. Could be good backup for blind or even better. Any verdict here. Should he be in or veltman is better. Atalanta were hammered by Dynamo Zagreb, no hope for hateboer.
     
  8. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    You have to look at big teams which are playing with offensive fullbacks and how they are covered by the midfielders when they are caught up. This was one of the reasons why van der weil was a hit at PSG and only to choke in NT because the midfield was weak during that time.even now I dont think De Roon has the lungs to cover dumfries when he is caught up.this is where fullbacks gets restricted. Van annholt to city would be a big hit because they the players to cover him especially in the midfield
    I see Dest in the same boat but defensively he needs players who can cover him up other its will the case like blind.vs big teams he sits backs and offers nothing.vs weaks teams he comes out like a lion.
     
  9. The first thing a back has to deliver is the defensive task. Attacking prowess is an extra that can be used if possible. It's not the other way around that we chose a back for his attacking skills and count on others to fill in the defensive tasks. That's not how it works, because in that case you better throw in a real attacker.

    However there are rumours that Koeman is leaning towards Tete for the back position.
     
  10. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Frenkie has played Biscuits out of the starting XI
     
  11. DutchFanatic

    DutchFanatic Member

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Dec 23, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I agree that since the Sneijder/Van der Vaart generation Ajax really hasn't added much attacking talent to the Oranje playing field in recent years.

    With that being said I think people who say that Ajax currently isn't producing any Dutch attacking talent (such as the article) are trying to score too easily and are not being fair.

    Malen, Dilrosun, Daishawn Redan and Kluivert are all attacking talents who were produced by Ajax and then poached against their will by foreign clubs. That's a great lineup of attacking players if they had just chosen to show loyalty to Ajax. Add to that Nouri who was lost in tragic circumstances and would have been a great, potentially worldclass, offensive midfielder. Those 5 players can absolutely be attributed to Ajax in which case I think the discussion totally changes.

    With that being said I definitely agree that at the moment the main Dutch offensive talents in the Eredivisie are coming through AZ and PSV. Good for them, i'm glad for the Eredivisie and i'm glad for Oranje. That's the way Oranje should be, a collection of the best Dutch players not just a collection of current and ex Ajax players. May PSV, AZ and all other Dutch clubs continue to churn out loads of Dutch talent.
     
    gabrielguilarte and Orange14 repped this.
  12. Hey:mad:
    You forgot a name
     
  13. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    FC Twente???
     
  14. :devilish:
    Watch it, I know where you live:cool:
     
  15. DutchFanatic

    DutchFanatic Member

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Dec 23, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Haha!
    To be honest I really hope FC Twente steps it up! My schoonfamilie is from Twente and its always a blast watching the games with them.
     
  16. :ROFLMAO:
    Well,stay awy this weekend:
    [​IMG] © BSR Agency
    upload_2019-9-21_22-35-21.png
     
  17. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    LOL!!!! He probably wishes he was still at Ajax right now. Barcelona look really bad. they have too many old, slow players and if Messi doesn't return to form they are just a mid-table club.

    de Ligt not in the starting 11 at Juve.:(
     
  18. DutchFanatic

    DutchFanatic Member

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Dec 23, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    On the plus side his replacement made a big error and gave away a stupid penalty. Almost all rating sites give Demiral the lowest rating of any Juventus player.

    However in a true double standard we hear nothing from all of the fans jumping down De Ligt's throat at every minor error and demanding that the 'more proven' Demiral gets the start.
     
    Oranje98 and Orange14 repped this.
  19. [​IMG]


    Driessen met dringend advies aan Koeman: 'Beloof hem plek in selectie EURO 2020'


    Gepubliceerd: vrijdag 20 september 2019 om 06:48

    Laatste update: vrijdag 20 september 2019 om 07:06

    Ronald Koeman moet niet langer wachten met het benaderen van Mohammed Ihattaren voor het Nederlands elftal. Volgens De Telegraaf-journalist Valentijn Driessen moet de bondscoach er nu zo snel mogelijk voor zorgen dat de jongeling van PSV voor Oranje kiest.

    Dat schrijft hij in zijn column in de ochtendkrant. 'Hij moet met directeur topvoetbal KNVB Nico-Jan Hoogma razendsnel afspreken met PSV’er Ihattaren en met een niet te negeren voorstel komen om voor Oranje te kiezen. Wat? Simpel: beloof hem een plaats in de selectie voor EURO 2020.'
     
  20. From the article an important remark about the tactics:
    Koeman is met Oranje afgestapt van het traditionele 4-3-3 – al was dat al langer gaande, ook onder zijn voorgangers – en hanteert een strategie waarbij aanpassingen makkelijk doorgevoerd kunnen worden. Begin dit jaar zei hij hierover in vakblad De Voetbaltrainer: „Wij zijn op zoek gegaan naar een systeem waarin we de speelwijze eenvoudig kunnen veranderen. Dus dat we binnen een wedstrijd kunnen schakelen van vier naar drie en van drie naar vier achterin.”
    google translate:
    With Orange, Koeman has moved away from the traditional 4-3-3 - even though it had been going on for some time, also among its predecessors - and uses a strategy whereby adjustments can easily be made. At the beginning of this year he said about this in the professional magazine De Voetbaltrainer: “We went looking for a system in which we can easily change the way we play. So that we can switch from four to three and from three to four in the back within a match. "
     
  21. Ihattaren wants to be left alone from chosing matters because his dad is very ill and he can do without the hassle of that matter.
    That's very understandably and I hope his father gets well soon.

    Ihattaren is an exceptional talent and once his worries about his dad are over has a very clear choice.
    He can become one of the crown jewels and legends of the Orange team like Cruijff, Gullit, Robben, Sneijder, van Persie etc. Or he with his qualities can choose to be what we call "een vlag op een modderschuit". Not sure how to translate that.
     
    BaritoPutra repped this.

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