Orange, the rebuild starts now

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by feyenoordsoccerfan, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Those of us who have watched Ajax Arena matches know that the pitch is slippery.
     
  2. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Portugal are struggling and could easily finish behind Serbia and Ukraine. Croatia were beaten by Hungary, a side that in recent times lost to the likes of Andorra and Luxembourg. Like Holland, Portugal and Croatia are guaranteed a (League A path) play-off spot. It wasn't exactly expected that League A teams would need this safety net. Maybe just the one and then that League A team wouldn't have to face strong opponents. Yet for the moment it looks like there will be more than one League A team in the play-offs.

    So Holland better not risk ending up in the play-offs. At the end of the regular qualifiers Germany will most likely take one of the direct spots. It's then between Holland and Norn Iron to fight over that last direct spot. Like regular Ireland did in 2002, to keep Holland from going to the World Cup, Norn Iron aren't spilling any points. If they keep this up they'll have a 9 point lead over Holland by the time Holland play Germany away. Could put extra pressure on Holland in the games against Norn Iron.
     
  3. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    So I still think we have a chance to get either a draw or a win in Germany, and here's why.

    Koeman needs to teach his pupils to play hard from the beginning like we did in the 2nd half. If we sit back like we did in the first we will get destroyed again. This comes down to leadership and motivation, which is Koeman's job!!

    I think we can do it!! I'm keeping the faith!!
     
    Gabriel Guilarte, Orange14 and Oranje98 repped this.
  4. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    There's no way Northern Ireland will take more than 1 point from us.
    I can see (maybe) one draw, but not more than that.

    And even one draw is highly debatable
     
  5. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    anyone thinks van ginkel will an upgrade in the midfield when fit and running.
     
  6. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    In place of who??
     
  7. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Attacking mid- wijnaldum
     
  8. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Estonia and Belarus aren't challenging for that direct spot. Besides Belarus already secured a play-off spot in the NL's League D and would only have to face other minnows to qualify via that path. That leaves Northern Ireland as the only "threat" and as they came last in League B they aren't assured of a second chance in the play-offs. They'd have to focus on making the top 2 now.

    Granted Northern Ireland are quite pedestrian. Will Grigg is their most famous player, and only because of a particular chant, he plays in the EFL's 3rd tier. Still ultra-defensive sides can be a pain in the ass. Lately Holland didn't have to face such teams. When the Northern Ireland games will be played the WCQs for Russia will be a distant memory. Fail to up the tempo in these sort of games or a few players have an off-day and Northern Ireland might grind out a draw or even grab a win with an opportunistic counter. They reached the KO rounds at EURO2016 after all.

    @Brilliant Dutch
     
  9. Oranje98

    Oranje98 Member

    Aug 8, 2014
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    MvG is an unfortunate example of how injury can ruin an excellent player's career, but yeah, I really think he still can get a spot in this Oranje. The dude is still only 26 years old.
    Chelsea on the other hand can not buy any player for two more seasons, and with Fabregas gone from the team, who knows! I believe he might get a really good chance under Sarri, only if both of them stay for one more season.
     
    wilson00 repped this.
  10. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    No, it is only for two transfer windows and Chelsea are expected to appeal. Barca received a similar ban and it was reduced to one transfer window.
     
  11. You're suggesting to replace a highly successful midfielder at Liverpool and after the inclusion of the Roon also in the Orange shirt for someone who has hardly played and not once at the highest level has proven what Gini does for the last two seasons with Liverpool.
    Makes sense:rolleyes:
     
    Brilliant Dutch repped this.
  12. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    There is no way MvG is an upgrade over Gini.

    I like Wijnaldum, he's our unsung hero in midfield
     
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  13. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    True , he’s the complete midfielder.. gets around well , tackles , intercepting plus he’s far more skilful than he’s given credit for ..
     
  14. Frysk Bloed

    Frysk Bloed Member

    Sep 6, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    As I've been saying for years...Wijnaldum is a fantastic and underrated player. He's easily our best midfielder right now (he is better than Frenkie, yes) and does a lot of the things that people don't pay attention to that makes a team successful. There's a reason he's one of Klopp's favourites.
     
    TitoTata and Brilliant Dutch repped this.
  15. Gabriel Guilarte

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Aug 28, 2018
    How come Wijnaldum is better than Frenkie. The only thing he does better is to shield the ball. Frenkie is miles ahead of Wijnadulm and he is only 21.
     
  16. Oranje98

    Oranje98 Member

    Aug 8, 2014
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I liked Gini since WC 2014. He was really good given his lack of experience back then. He proved himself with Feynoord, PSV, Newcastle & Liverpool when everyone thought he would only warm the bench, which can give you an idea on this guy's mentality.
    That being said, he really has average concentration and consistency. It's dificult to expect him to give you 100% for 3 games in a row, let alone 5-6 games as in major tournaments. Having another attacking mid like MvG in the squad would absolutely be helpful.
     
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  17. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    They’re completely different players and I’d have them both at Barca .. thankfully Frankie joins us in a few months
     
  18. Klopp not only likes his mentallity (what every player needs to play in the epl anyway), but also as he has said in an interview that Gino being soccer educated in the Netherlands is tactically very good and thus can fill in any task given on the pitch. Klopp made that remark in a discussion about the role change Gino had this season.
     
    Oranje98 repped this.
  19. Frysk Bloed

    Frysk Bloed Member

    Sep 6, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    This is not true either. Wijnaldum is a better finisher (actually just more productive in general), better defensively (his ability to read the play, and control space is second to none), has a better engine, is one of the best counter-attacking mids going, is almost unparalleled in transition, more tactically flexible, stronger on the ball (to your shielding point), and more consistent.

    Only in a fantasy world is Frenkie 'miles ahead' of Wijnaldum. He is young, new and shiny though so he has that going for him.


    Even though Wijnaldum has been, by far, Liverpool's most consistent midfielder in a campaign where they've broken PL records (defensively) and are on their way to their best ever PL season while also being a key piece in guiding them to the CL quarters (again) after having been absolutely massive in bringing them to the CL final last year? This is just simply untrue. If he looks different on the field it's generally due to his usage, not his consistency...especially when it comes to big games where he has been Liverpool's most consistent performer since he joined.

    To both posters all you have to do is look at Liverpool's record with and without Wijnaldum to see how big of an impact he plays. He's incredibly talented and intelligent, and one of Klopp's most important players.
     
    TitoTata and Orange14 repped this.
  20. Gabriel Guilarte

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Aug 28, 2018
    Our game started to change when Frenkie and Koeman came to the picture with the NT. Wijnaldum has been in the NT for so long. Don't get me wrong I appreciate his work but yeah Frenkie is way more complete and brings more to the game. Hell Gini is always looking for Frenkie so he can pass the ball. He even said that on a couple of interviews. Passing wise Frenkie is in a different level than any other Dutch midfielder, that's my opinion of course. Plus he is really good intercepting passes, his sliding tackle is also really good.
     
    Oranje98 repped this.
  21. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Saying Frenkie is better than Wijnaldum is a ridiculous thing to say. They are both completely different players who bring their own sets of skill and values to Oranje. Saying one is better than the other is like saying Sneijder is better than Nigel de Jong
     
    Orange14 repped this.
  22. Frysk Bloed

    Frysk Bloed Member

    Sep 6, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    While I agree they are completely different players, Sneijder was definitely better than Nigel de Jong. You can still look at the relative roles.

    Either way, Wijnaldum and de Jong belong together in midfield. They complement eachother very well. They're both among the top players in the world at their roles (Frenkie has a bit more growing to do though).
     
  23. wow, didnot notice that:D
     
  24. Yup. The point is that Gini started to play well for the Orange team when de Roon was added. Gini's qualities came into action after de Roon came in.
    This trio de Jong-Wijnaldum-de Roon form together the perfect combo in the midfield.
    There are people complaining about de Roon, pointing out there are other midfielders better than him technically. The point however is that de Roon in contrast to those players is the perfect companion for the other two. Taking de Roon out wouldnot improve the midfield, on the contrary.
     

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