Orange, the rebuild starts now

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by feyenoordsoccerfan, Oct 11, 2017.

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  1. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I have not given up on strootman.he is 28 and could be in his prime in 2022. modric too was 32 in the finals. he still hasnt hit the level where he was prior to the knee injury. he is working hard though and if he can at least shift a level up from what we have seen in the last season , he could well be in the fore front come 2022.
     
  2. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Simple answer, 'Strootman is no Luca Modric.' I don't see that he brings any value to the team. He's not a destroyer in the manner of van Bommel who was 33 at the 2010 WC and he's not a creative playmaker like Snjeider who was 30 during the Brazil WC. Bottom line- no future in the NT for me.
     
    Jpows repped this.
  3. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    Need more speed, creativity and athleticism in midfield... Unfortunately Strootman is lacking in all three areas, though I give him a ton of credit for the leadership and stability he's bringing to the team. Hence, I don't mind having Strootman to lead from the bench and in the locker room :p:D

    Vd Beek, F. De Jong and Vilhena is my "dream" midfield based on that aforementioned criteria. All are under 23 years of age, and have plenty of room to grow. That said, they are not anywhere close to lock in the NT starting line-up. Vd Beek was installed a handful of times already, pretty promising but certainly needs to prove his worth. F. De Jong is just returning from injury, who knows how long he will discover his form (Propper is a decent filler, but not a long-term answer). Vilhena is deployed as left-back currently... not quite natural for him. Koeman fancies Wijnaldum more at this point, which makes sense as Gino has more experience and plays in a larger stage.
     
  4. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    the funny thing is when he plays for Roma he doesnt look average like when he is playing for NT. might wanna look at that barcelona and Roma match wthere they won 3-0.
     
  5. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    The same can be said about Wijnaldum. In today's football I think you can win with strong defense and strong midfield and above average offense. In order to compete with France and Germany we need to have stronger midfield. Since we don't have the talents, Koeman can compensate with switching from 3-5-2 to 5-3-2 until we can have the talents. Hopefully F De Jong, Van De Beek and some other talents can be ready in 2 years time. If not then Nation Leagues is just a warm up for 2022 or 2026 WC for NT. There is no a country with 20M or less can win WC since 1958. There are 4 nations that can win Euro (Netherlands, Denmark, Greece and Portugal).
     
  6. So the storm has struck the German national team. Wonder what it will mean for our NL confrontations.
    All of a sudden top quality players are out and the nation shaking in its core believes. So will it put an unreasonable pressure on the kids replacing them or will they show the Confederation Cup flair.
    All of a sudden the climate has changed by the tremendous bigotry fueled by the semi nazi party AfD, where players are put into question because of their race or religion and dual nationality.
     
  7. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Are there players other than Ozil who have retired? Ozil is 29 years old and likely would not be a key player in two years when the next Euros are held.

    Note: I'm not discussing the merits of the 'bigotry' issue.
     
  8. For us it matters only for the NL matches, that are in a few months not in 2 years.
    The complete midfield is questioned by people, so it seems that not only Özil is going out.
    It's time to give Germany the recent Portugal treat.:)
    There are many posters that want Löw to go too, maybe we can lend a helping hand by destroying them:sneaky:
     
  9. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I'm not all that impressed with Germany. Their back line was a shambles in the WC, they don't have any dynamism in the MF and when you rely on Mario Gomez to score goals....well you get the drift here.

    Löw made a major mistake in not putting Leroy Sane on the WC team and he probably will be on the NL team. For me the only quality field players are, Kimmich (who is really good), Kroos (a good deep lying play maker) and Werner (who really was the only dangerous attacker when he had the chance). Brandt should have played much more than he did.

    If Koeman can forge a team, the Oranje should have no problems with Germany.
     
  10. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    https://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/ranking-table/men/index.html
    New ranking (using the new method) ... it looks like Holland were lucky.

    Holland are 17th, pretty close to Germany (15th), and have 1540 points.
    Compared to the old method Holland makes out like a bandit ... didn't drop to 24th and would have had only 823 points.

    Poland and Peru, who played in Russia, dropped below Holland, who couldn't lose points as they didn't reach Russia. Croatia (final) and Sweden (QFs) did overtake Holland. So Holland didn't drop at all.

    Now go get those points off France and Germany in the NL.
     
    Rakim_22 and Orange14 repped this.
  11. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    What's with all the 2022 talk? Lets focus on Euro 2020, the road to which begins in just a few weeks.
     
  12. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The new Argentina squad announced
    Goalkeepers:
    Franco Armani (River), Geronimo Rulli (Real Sociedad), Sergio Romero (Manchester United).

    Defenders: Fabricio Bustos (Independiente), Gabriel Mercado (Sevilla), German Pezzella (Fiorentina), Ramiro Funes Mori (Villarreal), Alan Franco (Independiente), Nicolas Tagliafico (Ajax), Walter Kannemann (Gremio), Leonel Di Plácido (Lanus), Eduardo Salvio (Benfica), Marcos Acuna (Sporting Lisbon).

    Midfielders: Leandro Paredes (Zenit), Santiago Ascacibar (Stuttgart), Rodrigo Battaglia (Sporting Lisbon), Gonzalo Martinez (River), Giovani Lo Celso (PSG), Franco Cervi (Benfica), Maxi Meza (Independiente), Matias Vargas (Velez), Franco Vazquez (Sevilla), Exequiel Palacios (River).

    Forwards: Angel Correa (Athletico Madrid), Lautaro Martinez (Internazionale), Mauro Icardi (Internazionale), Giovanni Simeone (Fiorentina), Cristian Pavon (Boca Juniors), Paulo Dybala (Juventus).

    Im looking at this squad and comparing it to the present dutch team . Will the dutch team be able to match this argentine squad in four years time since both are on re build phase.
     
  13. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    @wilson00 - Dutch have a better keeper and a far better back line. MF is not certain as we still don't know who will rise to the top in terms of young Dutch MFs. Dybala and Icardi are proven forwards and right now better than any Oranje player. Given the defense, I would say that Dutch have a very slight edge.
     
  14. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    exactly, its still unclear or not certain as you said. Thats the difference between the both teams.argentines have the players and just basically need to get combinations going ,while NT are still in the mix of things. Hopefully the dutch contingent in Serie A will add to depth in NT.
     
  15. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Well, the Dutch are on a bit of a different timeline in terms of rebuilding than the Argies. If this was for an important qualifier in CONMEBOL you would see Messi, Aguero and probably Di Maria in the squad. its easy to be bold when the game means nothing and the veterans probably don't even want to get called.

    So I'm not convinced the Argies are committed to beginning the re-build, whereas the Dutch are well into it already (no choice).
     
  16. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    if they are not committed then they should be opening few more tissue paper factorys. Simeone with 4-4-2 would literally come up with a world cup winning team with the above squad and few others who are not on that list and were injured during 2018. the Argentines found themselves in the same boat as the dutch in euro 2012 where they persisted with the same squad from wc 2010 and the outcome was ........... .

    the dutch seems to be lacking depth at the moment but signs are looking good with player movement in this transfer window and with more to come , come around the euros qualifiers a lot those loose ends could be well sewed up.
     
  17. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    [​IMG]

    Pre-selection for the upcoming matches. Some new faces and some old ones. The lack of good up-front options will plague this team as they need to score goals.
     
  18. Frysk Bloed

    Frysk Bloed Member

    Sep 6, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Promes-Memphis-Kluivert up front would be very difficult for most teams to deal with. All three are dynamic, fast and have a decent end product. The key is finding a midfield to support them. Unfortunately we know that it'll be a 3-4-3 most likely so I'd like to see something like this:

    de Vrij - de Ligt - van Dijk
    Janmaat - Wijnaldum - de Jong - van Aanholt
    Kluivert - Memphis - Promes​
     
  19. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Other option is a 3-5-2 which Juventus use most frequently. I would drop Kluivert and add Vilhena
     
  20. NOS Teletekst 806 2/2
    voorlopige selectie Oranje

    Doel: Bizot (AZ),Cillessen (Barcelona),
    Padt (FC Groningen),Zoet (PSV);

    Verdediging: v.Aanholt (Palace),Blind,
    De Ligt (Ajax),Aké (Bournemouth),v.Dijk
    (Liverpool),Hateboer (Atalanta),Kongolo
    (H'field),Janmaat (Watford),Tete (Lyon)
    Fosu-Mensah (Fulham),De Vrij (Inter);

    Middenveld: v.d.Beek,F.de Jong (Ajax),
    Pröpper (Brighton),De Roon (Atalanta),
    Sneijder (Al-Gharaffa),Strootman (AS
    Roma),Til (AZ),Wijnaldum (Liverpool),
    Vormer (Cl.Brugge),Vilhena (Feyenoord)

    Aanval: L.de Jong,Bergwijn (PSV),Promes
    (Spartak),Berghuis (Feyenoord),Weghorst
    (Wolfsburg),Babel (Besiktas),Kluivert
    (Roma),Elia (Basaksehir),Depay (Lyon);
     
  21. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    I wonder how many of the youngsters will keep their Big Boy's pants... my guess is that Til, V.d Beek, Bergwijn and Kluivert will drop down, given that Netherlands U21 will have decisive qualifying matches against England and Scotland.

    I suspect Frenkie De Jong will keep his spot as Koeman hasn't had a chance to get a look on him previously (he was injured towards the end of last season). I am personally excited to see FDJ in senior team... I think the team desperately needs his playmaking ability.
     
  22. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I would replace De Vrij with Ake and bring Van Dijk in the centre. when you are playing with wingbacks you need some mobility in the backline. unfortunately De Vrij doesnt have that. De Vrij should be backup for van Dijk.
     
  23. Ake sucks at defending and is tactically a nitwit. The ting he does well at Bourn. is attacking, but that's not what we need defenders for. De Vrij is several levels above Ake, which isnot hard as Ake is ground zero level.
    He shouldnot even be in the selection at all.
    My line up would be:
    Hateboer-de Vrij-v. Dijk-de Ligt-Kongolo
    Vilhena-vd Beek-Wijnaldum
    Bergwijn-Depay
     
  24. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member+

    Jan 26, 2007
    I think De Vrij (calmness), Van Dijk (toughness) and De Ligt (speed) are locked in the starting line up. They are all complementary, and still have plenty room to grow together. Ake would be the first one coming off the bench.

    I would go with Blind for LWB at the moment. He won't give you the forward run, but his ability to pick up runners (Depay, Promes, Wijnaldum) with his pinpoint long-passes would be more suitable in the 3-5-2 lineup. Also Blind brings stability in defense/midfield, much more than Van Aanholt who is a little bit erratic in my estimation.

    I would fancy Frenkie De Jong to be a deep-lying playmaker, similar to Kroos or Pirlo. Also, he and De Ligt have excellent understanding, and both cover each other well.

    Depay and Promes… two highly-mobile forwards and best goal-scorers in current squad. Need both to develop solid partnership.

    In sum, I'd like to see:

    Hateboer- de Vrij - v. Dijk- de Ligt - Blind
    Vilhena - d Jong - Wijnaldum
    Promes - Depay​
     
    Orange14 repped this.

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