Hi Sergio, I don't think any name has been decided by anyone, at this point. I used "Austin Phoenix" for the web site because I had to call it something. (but it is a pretty cool name) If this supporter-owned team idea does take off, the name would be decided by the membership, not just the 20-30 people on this thread. I'm very encouraged to hear that you're interested in helping. You sound like someone who could make a huge difference.
We can think of "Austin Phoenix" as the concept of the team we lost being reborn, rather than any decision on a name which would of course need to be voted on.
Ok guys I get it about the name. You guys are answering the wrong questions. The right questions we would need answers to are the budget ones. The bigger overall question is how to we remove this from a white only interest into one that includes the large amount of Hispanic soccer playing population. Those two questions are key to this being even somewhat successful. We need to get actual concrete numbers an make low ball predictions on all budget items which are favorable to us. Sergio
Hi Sergio, I agree with what you have to say, in regards to fan base. I thought about this problem back in the Austin Lightning days. I volunteered to hand out flyers at Fiesta, but they did not take me up on it. Regarding numbers, if we only get 100 people buying tickets on game day, I don't see how this thing would last, anyway. My personal view is that we have to assume an average gate of 500 tickets, because to assume otherwise is to assume failure. However, if there is an idea on how we could be sustainable with less revenue, that would be valuable.
There is a mention of this proposal as well as a general call to gauge interest of people who want to gather and discuss the future over at Chantico's Army.
Look brother I get it... we need 500 people at a game to be profitable. I have owned several businesses, selling most at a profit to pay for law school, and must tell you that you have to think in terms of failure. I have to be prepared for a season of maybe 100 person attendance. What does this mean? It means I need more capital at the outset. You have a one shot deal here with the enthusiam and anger around Austin. If you want to raise funds, significantly to run a business (remember this is still a business even as a 503(c) corporation, you need one of two things or both. Shares must be highly valued, perhaps at $500 a share, and you must open it up to at least 100 people. I think at a minimum you need this much capital to start being serious. Really if you want an honest opinion I wouldn't try this without a $500.00 a share cost to 150-200 people. $50,000 minimum or $100,000 to be a real player. After that initial start up fund raising you need to truly bring a diversified team/coach. I would not grab any of the Lonestar coaches, period. I would look for a latin american coach and then look at the millinium league for at least 1/2 of my squad. You want to bring in the mexican community you bring in 1/2 of their players and you instantly have a 50 to 75 people at your games. Another avenue of expertise I provide is soccer equipment. The only choice here is JOMA for uniforms and equipment. Period. They are the most affordable brand out there and I know the regional manager personally. He might be interested in a deal to increase his visability. Their best option is some of their 4 piece uniforms. 2 Jerseys, 1 Short, 1 Sock. We could obtain more stuff individually as needed. The legal stuff I can take care of, thats no problem as I am an attorney. I am not trying to be mean just generating some serious questions and discussions. Sergio
Hi Sergio, Not viewing your comments as mean, at all. On the contrary, I think they are extremely helpful. If we had 242 people buy-in at $290 each, it would give us $70k starting capital. Hopefully, we could raise more than that (and possibly add more members, later in the initial season).
I'll chime in as well. I agree that we need at least one full season's worth of capital to get started. I don't think that offering shares at $500/ea is the best option. At that price, you might price out some interested parties that might have bought in for a share or two at $100 ea. I do think you're absolutely right about bringing the Hispanic community into the fold. They represent a large part of Austin (especially the soccer/futbol fans), and its important that the club has their support as well. I also agree that the best way to do that is to have players from that same community. I'm not sure it will be easy to get into that market though, as I hear that Millennium is starting their own minor league team in the National Star Soccer League (NSSL). In other threads/posts, I have proposed possibly just throwing residual Aztex support behind that team. That being said, I do like the idea of a community-owned club. As you can imagine from my statements above, I think it would be important to have a coach that would be comfortable working with players from a broad background. To be honest, I'm not sure our modest club could even afford the cost of a Lonestar coach. I too greatly appreciate your insight/contacts into the soccer equipment realm. Perhaps most of all, I'm excited about your legal experience. I am afraid that professional services such as legal and accounting could be serious costs for a low-budget club, if they can't find soccer-supporting professionals such as yourself to help the club out. So I hope to continue to see your presence Sergio. You've offered a lot of good feedback already.
FWIW the CEO of Wimbledon AFC is a former partner in the London office of Price Waterhouse. Took early retirement to run the new club, for free. Some people will have to put in a similar level of commitment, at least for short periods (ticket sales drive, organising tryouts, etc). Good luck to all.
Not to be too big a party-pooper, but with Millennium joining the hispanic NPSL (already blanking on their acronym), you're not going to get any of their players. I am very interested in this discussion in that it's the core of an issue that's gone on here in Austin since the USL Lonestars: "not getting enough latin players, so the hispanic community tunes out." I remember having conversations with people back in the days of the USL Lonestars, and their comments were, to put it bluntly, "the players there aren't good enough." Chivas LA ran into this issue very quickly, and still lacks that latin flavor that was their initial plan. There are hints that that's no longer the case, what with Texas players (in the handfuls) popping up in the Mexican league and on the US U-xx teams. And as long as you're looking at the 4th/5th division level, it shouldn't be an issue. Still, this leads me to wonder why anyone is talking about creating a follow-up team to the Aztex, when it appears that there already will be one next spring: Millennium. Are we (the primarily anglos on the BS boards) ignoring a place where we should be putting our energy because of a language and cultural barrier?
Interesting point, that I feel proves the need to not only get a group discussion face to face, but to also go look at some of the teams in leagues we've chatted about, including SPSL. I for one will go watch some (at least) of the Millenium games. Frankly, I'm interested in seeing a primarily Hispanic focused experience live. I'm curious, at the very least, to see if there's something that could be duplicated if we chose to go with an additional team.
These are great points. Honestly, I don't know hardly anything at all about Millenium, but if they are the only pro game in town, you bet your ass I'll be there at some of their games. Hell, if the groundwork has been layed, what's to stop the anglo audience from also adopting this team? I went back and checked out 1260AM Facebook page when it posted that the Aztex were leaving. For those who don't know, 1260am is ESPN Deportes here in town. Here are some of the comments from people. They are pretty telling about how a number of Hispanics felt about the Aztex. Translations are rough, but you get the idea. Marco Rivera - A quien le important los Aztex? (Who cares about the Aztex?) Carlos Ibarria - pues ni modo, que se vallan. su mas grande error fue en no haber traido raza de Mexico a jugar en su equipo, tal vez un entrenador Mexicano hubiera tenido otra perspectiva. (Let them leave. Their biggest error was not bringing in another Mexican to play on the team and perhaps a Mexican coach would have come with another perspective.) Oscar Morales Quienes son lo Austin Aztek? (Who are the Austin Aztex?) Luis Jimenez - Lástima la desición, se van en el momento que tenian más aficionados. Boletos caros, incentivos para el aficionado y, más trabajo con la comunidad latina; quizás hayan sido los factores del descalabro económico del cual se quejan. Debieron copiar parte del trabajo logístico que hace el Houston Dynamo. Suerte en Orlando, Florida. (The decision is a shame. They are leaving in the moment that they had the most fans. Expensive tickets, more incentives for the fans and more work within the Latin community have been the factors into the economic problems they (the team) are complaining about. They should have copied the logistical work done by the Dynamo. Good luck in Orlando.)
The same thing that's illustrated by most of the comments below: the separation of communities. Most of the comments below suggest that people didn't even know about the Aztex. What will keep the anglo audience from adopting this team is Millennium not marketing to the anglos. And if you're on a low budget, you have to choose where you put your money. It makes perfect sense for them to market only to the community that they're already tied in to. As for me, I expect I'll go watch. Will I volunteer? Probably not, as my Spanish is limited to 'tiro esquina', etc. I'd probably make a damned fool out of myself. This is the attitude that I find saddest and most frustrating. It's the attitude that MLS tried a number of times early on (and occasionally gets dredged up on MLS boards): "The hispanic community will come out if there is a Mexican on the team." The problem is, at this point, at least at the MLS level, it has been shown over and over again to not be true. OK, so the comment above takes it one step farther: We want two Mexicans on the team... and/or a Mexican coach. Last year, their supporters group stopped showing up because the Aztex were a losing team. This year, we had a winning team. As I'm not hispanic and am far from being in that community, I can't say to what extent the winning brought them back, but the sampling of comments you translated suggests that maybe some were pulled back in. Clearly not nearly enough, though. I think the real issue is that people won't show up because the team isn't a Mexican team. From Mexico. Now, maybe Millennium's having ties to Pachuca will matter enough. Maybe there's enough of a hispanic population in town to keep Millennium going and have it grow into that pro team that we'd like to have back. I still find it sad, and another version of Eurosnobbery that people wouldn't support the Aztex because it didn't fit their vision of futbol. Along with all the other people that we've dumped scorn on for losing the team, we can add them to the list as far as I'm concerned. And I find it frustrating that, because of this attitude, there are now three national leagues (PDL, NPSL and SPSL) that will be trying to mine the same vein. It's the same issues that have been undermining US soccer for a hundred years now. Rather than joining together to reduce travel costs for everyone and making one strong league, you get three vastly weaker leagues, undercutting each other. And it really doesn't help to have yet a fourth league digging their own mine. *sigh* Sorry to go wandering off into broader thoughts, but it's where my mind's at lately. Here's hoping Millennium happens next season. And will be playing somewhere relatively easy to get to. It would be nice to have something to replace the Aztex with.
Is this about national origin, or style? Would/will Millennium accept anglo players who could/can fit into a team that plays a Latin style. Will hispanic fans turn out for a team that plays that style but has significant anglo presence? Is the national origin of the coach the key? It's all kind of sad. I strongly prefer the passing game and working up an attack through the midfield. I think the Aztex played best when they did that, despite the 20-30 long balls from the back per game. But if it's about national origin more than style of play, then we are doomed to separate soccer communities in Austin.
Ok... couple of points. (1) I am not saying we have to have a Mexican team or a Mexican coach but you have to have a latin flavor to it. The problem is that the Aztex team represented white and black America, albiet we had some african and european players, and not the latin american players/style we (latinos) enjoy watching. Hell you guys enjoy it too!! I mean isn't Messi most people's favorite player? This is the style latinos prefer, technical. The Aztex, and I said it before, were a Stoke EPL type team. Long ball after Long ball. Sorry, not going to attract latinos. Its not one big name Mexican player its a style of play coupled with unknown latin american/mexican/etc players which I think would make the team better. (2) Coach - I am a professional National Licensed D coach, I created Lubbock Arsenal FC the largest club in Lubbock Texas four years ago and I am the founding member, and can tell you that you can afford Lonestar Coaches but you don't want to. I coached at the lonestar club when I got back to Austin and I wasn't impressed. Besides Wolfgang I didn't really see a coach who I would say "damn, i want this guy coaching my kid." I think a team needs to find a coach who is young and enthusiastic regardless of experience. I am thinking ala barca with Pep. Someone young enough to relate maybe even in the 33-35 age range with some game play still left in him. Anyone else think BETO might be an option? He coaches at Lonestar but I am not sure he is truly happy coaching girls, we are friends from UT Club Soccer and Capital Soccer Club as players. (3) Two hundred plus members at $250 seems like a good starting point. However, I do not think this is a two shot deal. If you allow people to "buy in" later you are dilluting the shares of those that purchased at the beginning. Be ready for some class action law suits by shareholders, including me, for violation of fiduciary duties in reissuing stock in their investment. Just saying. Its a one time shot. (4) Yes I could do the research and labor part at no expense but there are filing fees and state fees associated with a corporation in Texas. Additionally, you have monthly and quarterly financial statements that are required so you need an accountant besides an attorney in the professional arena. Those could easily add up to $1000.00 or more in a recurring pattern each year. Sorry I can't run the club fulltime for free, I am only 30 and just started practicing law so not even close to retirement. Sergio Sergio
Well... I'd advise you take another look at the NSSL website before you make any assumptions about the "pro game" coming back to town. Or try the Millennium website itself, which doesn't mention a pro team, or even an adult team. These may be fine folks, and maybe they'll build something, but I don't think this is going to be a pro team for a very long time. (Actually, Austin had an NSSL team this past season, competing in the South Central Division with Brazos FC, Houston Galaxticos, FC Brenham FC, Inter Tunell FC, and TSSA. Who knew?)
My apologies if you thought I meant you. I was commenting on the 1260 board quotes that TexasBarcaFan found and translated for us. I don't think the long ball was because of Adrian. I think it was an artifact of the narrow field. Not that I'm an expert by any means. But it seems to me that if you try to work the ball around in that narrow a field, you're not going to get anywhere. I'd love to see someone with a different approach try, just to see what the results are. I'd be happy to be wrong. As to 'making the team better'... the team was pretty darn good this year. You're pretty much making my argument for me. Here's the catch-22 the Aztex were in. "We won't watch you if you aren't a winner." Aztex move to House Park and produce a winner. "We won't watch you if you don't play the passing game." Of course, the Aztex have left now, but if my theory holds any water, imagine they switch to the passing game and end up a losing team. Then we're back at square one. Now, I'm not a professional National Licensed D coach. Just some geek that likes watching soccer and has watched it for a decade or so. So I could very well be full of crap. I'm sad that the Aztex are gone. I'd love to watch some games with you and get some more education. As to all your other comments, what are your thoughts on Millennium?
My apologies if I said anything that suggested that Millennium would be a pro team. Far from it. It'll be PDL, if we're lucky. We had a team in the NSSL? Wow. That underscores my point about the separation between communities. Nevertheless, it's something. Well, maybe. My point being, we should get behind what's there. Because it'll never grow into anything if it doesn't get support. ...then again, I guess it would be better if there were at least a modicum of seriousness. And if the teams involved can't even put together something that resembles a regular season, then it's probably better to put energy into something of our own.
Well I just surfed the NASL (whatever) website and they appear to confirm an Austin Millinium Team for 2011. Thats a news flash for me. I had no idea. My uncle, owner of Azteca Futbol on Burleson, is a sponsor and provider of JOMA to their league. In my opinion they got the Mexican League system down pretty well. They got that market tied up good compared to Austin Mens Soccer League. What I did not expect was the investment into the youth arena. However, they are providing a lower cost option to those kids who cannot afford lonestar or the capitals. The Lonestar club and capitals will continue to pry their best youth talent until they finally win a state title and/or national championship. Although, if their connection to Pachuca is strong enough and even 1 kid gets picked up by a Mexican club they have it made in the Mexican youth market. Additionally, all attempts by Lonestar to jump into the East Austin Market have failed, to include putting Luis Papanderas (Betos Dad and former Argentina National Player) out there to recruit kids. If this team of theirs is truly happening they have one advantage over any of us, money! They have two sources of income to maintain their club. Adult leagues and youth teams. Additionally I would say that their experienced board/president has a leg up on us too. Sergio
#1. You can count me in ($250-$500). I'll shell out my last pennies if it means keeping a team in Austin. Even though i don't live in Austin any more, i still remember the times i would go see some games(good times). #2. I'm Hispanic, I still don't see the point of trying to convince any group of people to do something they don't want to do. Trust me i several friends and cousins that will support their Mexican teams to their last breath,even though they've never been to a single game. You have to remember they were conditioned to love these teams from a young age. Just as i was to root for the Cowboys. So breaking this bond is harder than just recruiting some Hispanic players. BUT, it doesn't hurt either. I can still remember the first day i moved to Austin, i went through cultural shock. Sitting in class with 400 people who i didn't resemble. So other Hispanic people who went to their first Aztec game probably went through that, and they never returned. That's why most prefer to stick to games with a pro Hispanic demographic. It's not that the game is much better, but more that its somewhere you feel comfortable around. Either way you've got another supporter
Another area where Phil failed miserably I think is the ULTRAS part of futbol. Look I agree its dirty but a new club, and I mean us if we are serious, have to give these ULTRAS some incentive to attend our games beyond soccer. In San Luis, where I used to play, the barras bravas are given an allotment of tickets, say 200, at a discount which they resell to their fan base at profit. Sure the leaders pocket some of the money, everyone knows this, but the fans show up and show up in force. Whose to say we can't find a support group to do just this within the hispanic community? Or even venture with Mexican area business and offer them a money making opportunity selling our tickets? Just a thought.
Is it about the players and the style or the way that the team reaches out to the community? The Aztex could probably have gone a long way by having some bilingual announcements at games, programs printed in Spanish, and a version of the website accessible to Spanish speakers.
I am not saying this needs to be a Mexican club... a Mexican club playing long ball will still not work in my opinion. However, Hispanic players as a whole tend to be more technical players so a larger amount of them on the team would mean the coach has to adjust to that playing style for game preperation. To answer your question-- ITS THE STYLE OF PLAY. Just happens that more hispanic kids play this type of futbol. However, simply printing stuff in Spanish isn't enough. We have some major hispanic advertising players in Austin and Aztex failed to reach out to them. I am not talking about Univision or Telemundo. I am talking about the advertising companies which have major studies to support their product advertising. In fact I believe there is one here which won a national contract and had a commercial in the superbowl. Sergio
It's NSSL.. It appears to be a Division 5 league, affiliated with USASA. Does anyone know, for sure, that this is actually happening? Millennium's web site doesn't seem to mention it, at all, which has made me a bit suspicious of whether this is really happening, or not. (And if so, what this implies as far as how serious they are. No public mention of this from them doesn't seem to bode well, to me, and makes me wonder if this is just a rec league kind of operation.) I'm hoping to support an organization that is going to build towards a future of returning professional soccer to Austin, or to at least compete at a similar level of the PDL or NCAA Division 1 (both of which are a pretty high level of competition, in my opinion). If someone else is already doing this, that would be fantastic.
Who are the major players? Is Nacho one of them? Because he put a lot of time and energy into the Aztex in their first year, including creating a supporters group. He was rewarded by the supporters not coming anymore because the team didn't win enough.