olympic team without abby - your approach

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by luvdagame, Jul 17, 2008.

  1. casocrfan

    casocrfan Member

    Nov 25, 2004
    San Francisco
    Boxx can not play against the better teams. She is a major liability in the center of the midfield. We have now seen her in four consecutive Brazil games and in each one she is outrun and outplayed by the Brazilians.... and for the last three the best Brazilian central players weren't playing. She must be replaced in these games.
     
  2. noorwell

    noorwell Member

    Sep 15, 2003
    brooklyn,ny
    I am not gonna read all this armchair crap that the team could win the gold without Abby.... I know they will get out of they group, past the quarters is a ???????? and if they ever win that gold it will be a miracle!!!
     
  3. danigirl9

    danigirl9 New Member

    May 3, 2008
    Philadelphia
    Club:
    Philadelphia Independence
    Then don't read it. Go away.
     
  4. danigirl9

    danigirl9 New Member

    May 3, 2008
    Philadelphia
    Club:
    Philadelphia Independence
    I was actually impressed with the AROD-Kai-Lloyd action toward the end of the game yesterday. But I just can't see Kai being a 90 minute clutch player--she's more of that second half burst of energy against a tired defense. With that being said, I'd say maybe they should drop into the 4-5-1 formation, or a 4-4-2 with Tarp up top. I also wish that Chalupny could somehow move out of defense and replace a midfielder--her workrate is just fantastic and she could make the difference in an offensive situation. Unfortunately, that's probably too dangerous for the defense right now.

    Decisions, decisions.
     
  5. Romario'sgurl

    Romario'sgurl Member+

    Wakanda FC
    Aug 26, 2000
    Wakanda
    Club:
    FC Ingolstadt 04
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Hah! Repped!

    First of all, if I were Pia, I'd send out a mass email to the entire roster with a link to these forums. Perhaps, the lack of faith from the team's fans will motivate the players even more....

    I'm not the biggest USWNT fan but I don't see the doom and gloom many are projecting. They're still a decent team, with good physical ability--a constant within the program. The second half of last night's match showed that are fit, if anything.

    As for strategy, how about trying Hucles up top with A-Rod? Angela was a very good forward, albeit early in her collegiate career just a thought ::dodges rotten tomatoes::
     
  6. yellowdog

    yellowdog New Member

    Jun 3, 2008
    I'm pretty sure the alternate goalies do, but the position players stay home and come if they are needed, like Cox did for the Peace Cup.
     
  7. noorwell

    noorwell Member

    Sep 15, 2003
    brooklyn,ny
    I like jumping on bandwagons!!!!!!
     
  8. lonerunner

    lonerunner New Member

    Apr 27, 2008
    I have followed the boards for months but this is my first post. My heart goes out to Abby for missing the Olympics, but we still have a great team. I think that the team will step-up. Tarp, O'Reily, Mitts, and Chalupny all have speed running up and down the field. This combined with the some great skills up front will win games at the Olympics. The players on this team are the best players that the US has to offer for the Olympics. Abby will create a big void but we have to rely on the skills on the other 17 players that won spots on the Olympics. We have a great team who have dedicated their lives to soccer. I still believe that we can win the gold. Maybe that is just the parent in me but I have seen a lot of teams lose their best player and come back to win. My son's soccer team did this last season.
     
  9. noorwell

    noorwell Member

    Sep 15, 2003
    brooklyn,ny
    I think I gonna jump on your Bandwagon Kool-Aide......after all this crap the team could win without Abby I got schooled by your great analysis of Abby's lost... we will get out of the group, but from the quarter final on it will be a miracle if we win the gold.... I believe since we got a great record at the Olympics we could or may pull it off...
     
  10. Mookie141

    Mookie141 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 10, 2008
    Mooktown
    Club:
    Sky Blue FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I'm very interested to see the outcome in this. I've noticed that when people mention the last cycle of players they not only talk about Mia but Foudy, Fawcett, Lilly, Chastain, and MacMillan. But in this cycle there's not really any other players that people talk about in the same breath as Abby. She's a big piece of the team no doubt, but I think it's very unfair to put the whole load on her shoulders. Had she not been injured there's no telling how long she would have had to carry that burden. One day she's going to get older, it's happened to the best. There has to be a group, a strong group of core players who can complement her and the team, and carry her legacy and that of those before her. I think that those players will arise during and after the Olympics for they will be forced to grow exponentially. That's where it gets interesting to me.
     
  11. UNC4EVER

    UNC4EVER Member

    Sep 27, 2007

    Yikes! What a situation! Lets get to work!

    I was confident we could go to China with three forwards, because we had Abby. Now its a whole new ballgame :eek:.

    The attack: I wish I could take credit for this insight, but someone else said it first-- Kai is a pure FINISHER like the women's game has not seen for a while. Love her or not, you gotta recognize her as a Force Of Nature! But that doesn't mean you can WORK with her... You can't plan around Kai-- she doesn't seem to know herself what she is going to do from one moment to the next. To ask her to be different is to take the edge off the knife... Let her run riot for the last 30 minutes. That is when she hears the music :cool:, and that is her contribution to the team. But then, who does A-rod work with? I don't think bringing up Cheney solves this problem. Maybe against Notre Dame or UNC, but not against Germany. My inclination would be to push Tarpley to the top to get some more experience up there and bring in Kai to spread havoc in the last 30. We still probably ought to have Cheney, cause now we are thin up top.

    Midfield: I like HAO on the right. With Tarpley pushed up, I like Heath on the left. She has been a little up and down on this squad, but playing wide, one-on-one is what she does well. Tobin seems to rise and fall with the coaching-- she can lose the music, and then she looks a bit adrift. However, if Pia gives her this job which she knows how to do, she can get to it, and she has tremendous heart...! This would be big pressure for a young player, but i think she could truly break out and step up in a big way.

    There is a problem with our center midfield. I can't put my finger on it, but before Abby went down it was our weak link. I don't know if it is Boxx, or that Lloyd is erratic, or what, but instead of our center midfield being the backbone and anchor of the squad, its more like Forest Gump's box of chocolates: You're just never quite sure what you are going to get? One possible solution (with a big problem): Maybe Chalupny at holding mid? She is quick, scrappy, and strategic--with the technical skill to be a playmaker. Maybe she can settle down our middle pitch, which right now seems a little whispy and which Marta and Prinz may blaze through (I fear) like grain through a goose... What I don't like about this is that Chalupny is such a solid presence and such a dynamic contributor to attack from the back line. While I don't think we are going to keep teams like Brazil and Germany off the boards, I do think our back four are looking very good and I don't like messing with it:(. That said, maybe someone like Trotter is an option? I know bringing up both Trotter and Cheney creates a numbers problem, but circumstances alter cases, and Wambach's injury is a huge change in circumstance! I will leave it to others to guess who might come off the current roster to make a space for Trotter's speed and attacking abiltiy off the back line...

    Overall: With Wambach gone we need to be much more nimble. We are in a weak group and I think we advance. Brazil can be erratic, and who knows how they will show up? They might beat us, but I am not as awed or as worried as others seem to be-- notwithstanding our loss in the WC and tight matches against a weakened roster in the last two friendlies... Brazil could easily flake out and fall apart-- they have been (well) known to get inside their own heads. Germany, on the other hand, was IMO the best team in the world before Wambach got hurt. Without her, I think we have a big problem with Germany, but on any given day anything can happen. I feel like we still have a very reasonable shot at a medal in China, and silver may be quite in reach, depending on how things shake out from group play... IMO we had our work cut out to deal with Germany, and now that task has gotten harder, but I believe the gals will be super motivated to make a statement, and with a bit of luck I think we have the talent to do quite well. Also, and finally, unless Sundhage does something very weird in the matches (odd goalie switch?) I would like to see her have more time with this team-- whatever the result. She inherited the player pool and then lost three major contributors to injury-- that is a tough hand to turn into aces--- I like her philosophy overall and would be inclined to give her more time... Best of luck to all the gals-- Go USA!
     
  12. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member+

    Feb 1, 2002
    a van by the river
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My issue with your lineup is that, in the past, Mitts has had a tendency to get caught upfield upon occasion. Here, her cover would be Lloyd, a player who doesn't always recover/cover quickly defensively. (there did I say that nicely enough?) You may mean for the lineup to morph so that O'Reilly is more a winger that covers the defensive ground, which might work better. If your midfield is a diamond, who's the point? I don't think 3 forwards is a good way to go for a team whose midfield already has the potential to be porous.

    With the exception of putting Chalu on the left & Mitts on the rt, I think this is the most likely lineup. As I've said b/f, I'd rather see Tarpley pushed up and someone on the left. I don't think this lineup solves the middle of the pitch problems some of us see. But, I think we'll see this lineup.

    eta: At least we know Pia (up til this point) isn't afraid to use subs...
     
  13. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    I think the team can work around Abby's absence. She is a great player but she is slow and the team relies on her too often. Rather than one player scoring seven goals I see four or five getting three to four goals. This is a blow to the team but there they are athletic enough to compensate. I am glad to say the team is hungry and well coached for the first time in years and this injury may bring them together.
     
  14. noorwell

    noorwell Member

    Sep 15, 2003
    brooklyn,ny
    Oh man you call Abby slow? then Akers mush have been a race horse in her young days for a big woman... whatta about Prinz she is big and slower than Abby.. ever watch a horse race see how the medium size Horse seem to be cuting through gravity and the big horse seem to be seem to be hamper by it making it appear to be slow..... if you follow racing a little you will see that most of the great race Horses where big ones..... google horse racing and check the thriple-crown winners and see for yourself...
     
  15. casocrfan

    casocrfan Member

    Nov 25, 2004
    San Francisco
    I fear there is going to be too much emphasis on replacing Abby up top and not on the team's real weakness - the midfield. The fact remains that even with Abby on the field the U.S. has slipped to third best in the world behind Germany and Brazil and is being pushed hard by Korea, Sweden, Australia and Canada. Not having Abby up top shouldn't be our concern.... having a midfield that is unproductive, slow and lacks communication should be.

    I'm not saying Abby isn't a huge loss. Of couse she is, but if we don't get our midfield corrected I don't care who is up there. The goal against Brazil came from Arod hustling her butt to a ball nobody should have been able to get. It wasn't through the run of play. HAO has been invisible for the past couple of months and Boxx is way too slow and seems to lack any ability to communicate with her counterpart in the middle. I don't mind Lloyd as an attacking mid and Tarp has been ok. The team needs to use a true defensive central mid to play behind Lloyd (Hucles, Wagner, etc.) and find a more productive second flank midfielder to replace HAO. I'd be curious to see Cheney in this role and I would put Chalup in the defensive mid role because we need energy and tenacity in that postion - both of which she has in excess. In this case I am willing to give up a little strengh in the back line to improve the central midfield.
     
  16. soccermum

    soccermum New Member

    Sep 24, 2006
    This is the best I have heard this explained and is how I feel. She definitely brings something great to the party but I don't think you can plan or build and offense around her.

    As to the Chalupny at holding mid, her size could work against her there. Perhaps its a prejudice but I think of big and strong there, Akers, Boxx, Osborne. Chalupny's size would keep her from being a strong heading presence although I have to say I have seen her win headers climbing up the backs of bigger players. Her work rate is incredible.
     
  17. lynkait

    lynkait New Member

    Apr 14, 2005
    While the loss of Wambach is a big psychological blow, Cheney is fast with a nose for the goal and plays with style and confidence with her back to the goal. She can turn on a dime in a flash and is not afraid to shoot left or right. I think she is the natural replacement in these circumstances and I suspect Ellis knows once she gets some opportunities on the world stage, it may be hard to get her back to Westwood!
     
  18. casocrfan

    casocrfan Member

    Nov 25, 2004
    San Francisco
    At this point in the game I would take that work rate over Boxx's ineffectiveness. My point is that Boxx has been given the chance and failed against the top teams. Why stick with something when you know it's not working. I agree with you about Chalup's size, and I usually would not put a small player in this role, but either the U.S. tries something different or settles for competing for the Bronze.
     
  19. jd6885

    jd6885 Member

    Jun 30, 2001
    Tacoma
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    4-1-3-1-1

    -----------------ARod/Kai--------------
    -----------------Lloyd-----------------
    ---Tarpley-------Hucles---------HAO--
    ------------------Boxx----------------
    -Chalupa--Rampone--Markgraff--Mitts--

    To start off, I really don't see much improvement from the Peace Queen Cup to now. we're still knocking the ball around too far, and we're not connecting--particularly the defenders with the Midfielders, and the midfielders with the forwards. There's too much space between the players when we transition from defense to attack and attack to defense. Our midfield is too jell-o like...in short we need to develop a spine: a central spine of Lloyd, Hucles, and Boxx, to string short passes together. We need more of the triangular spacing in the midfield, instead of EVERYONE pushing up into the attack--it just begs too much for the long ball, route 1. Soccer is a chess match. You don't show all your moves at once, you have to be patient and probe around a bit.

    Attack:
    We're lacking bite up front, so we need to remedy that with having Lloyd in a supporting role. We need to first get her confident in shooting from distance again, thus the opposing defenders would have to close in on her, leaving room for ARod/Kai to maneuver into the gaps. Lloyd's mobility is quite limited so putting her up higher into the offense lets her focus her energy into the attack, leaving the mopping up to the 4 mids. I believe Lloyd has the physical presence to hold the ball long enough to let HAO and Tarps get up into the attack, she then has the option of laying off the ball to tarps or HAO, or if she has room, to shoot from distance.

    Mids:
    Tarps and HAO are actually going to function more like wing forwards. They're very skillful with the ball at their feet, especially in tight spaces. We can take advantage of that by forcing the outside backs to mark them in the attack. This way, the defenders are constantly switching from pressing in the center (marking the speedy Arod and Lloyd's shooting) to pressing on the sides(marking the skillful tarpley and speedy HAO), this will inevitably tire the opponent and give good scoring opportunities to us (particularly in the last 30 mins of the game.

    I like Hucles in the CM role. I must say she has grow tremendously as a player. I never did favor her much during Ape's reign...I just didn't see it, but now she has much quicker feet, and faster response times than do Lloyd or Boxx in that position. She's a good balance of physicality, mentality, and skill.

    Boxx will be our dedicated DM player. We saw during the Brazil game what happens when both our CMs go into the attack. Acres of space right in the middle of the field are open for the counter.

    Defense:
    pretty much same tactics as the current.
     
  20. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Cheney is very good in the air and is also good at winning balls. if she is willing to play some defense, she ought to be considered in the midfield, perhaps as an attacking mid.

    If they want to play the two central mids side by side like they seem to have the last two games, she could be one of those players.
     
  21. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Having rewatched the game last night after taking time enough to let first impressions die away, I have to say that while I can see some of the incidents which led to some of the critisms throughout the thread, I don't buy them.

    Hao is not invisible, Mitts is certainly not slow, I don't see any need to change the midfield personnel, and the attack is good enough even without Abby. I would like Lloyd to pay a little attention to when Boxx has comitted to the offense and not do the same herself, and we may need to work out who is going to get Boxx a bit of rest.

    And nothing on earth can guarantee against Marta having a big day no matter who she's up against, and Germany is capable of beating anyone 1-0 on a given day.

    But while its not a perfect team by any means, I think we're ready, and I think we have as good a chance as anyone. If Abby were going I'd expect the gold.
     
  22. casocrfan

    casocrfan Member

    Nov 25, 2004
    San Francisco
    I like this philosophy, provided that Boxx can stay put and be that defensive center mid. That, to me, would be the key.
     
  23. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a very interesting discussion. Just a few comments to add:

    1. Our defense hasn't allowed a goal in how many games? Quite a few after raising some questions a while ago. I don't see Pia changing the back line, so I think any talk about Chalupny moving to mid-field is unrealistic. The one criticism I have about our present defense is that Mitts tends to boot the long ball forward and lose it too much. It would be nice if she could hold it longer or get a pass to someone. Maybe it's not all her fault -- maybe no one is getting open for her. But, I think it's an area for improvement.

    2. I don't know how much, if any, experience Cheney has at mid. On such short notice, I dont' see how she possibly could be integrated into the team in the midfield, even if she eventually could play there. So that seems unlikely before the Olys.

    3. I've been thinking for a long time that it's a shame for the WNT (and her) that Megan Rapinoe tore, then reinjured, her ACL. She was starting to play and to score for the team and might have been great at forward and/or mid, at both of which she has experience. She's extremely tough physically, can defend, can attachk and has a wicked shot. (ND's coach said a goal she scored from about 25 yards out against ND in the 2005 NCAA Tournament was the hardest shot he'd ever seen -- from a man or a woman.)
     
  24. noorwell

    noorwell Member

    Sep 15, 2003
    brooklyn,ny
    Agree concerning Megan Rapinoe....
    I have been hearing all kinds of guys saying this and this college girl and not a whisper about Megan Rapinoe is what we need.... if I am correct most of those girls aren't near the class of Megan.... I could point out a few of the present middies and forwards on the WNT also, but I don't want to start a war...
     
  25. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wasn't suggesting, by the way, that Pia should be looking at Megan at this point. We don't know yet how her rehab has gone and she's played very little for the last 18 months. We'll know more in about 6 weeks, after the college season begins.
     

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