Old great players lists (esp. 1950s - 1970s) ?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by PuckVanHeel, Feb 15, 2017.

  1. arriaga

    arriaga Member

    Jun 27, 2017
    Good news. I had the forethought to make notes on things of particular interest in past WS issues, so I managed to find the list I was talking about. It's from the Apr 61 issue of WS, and has two other poll results to go with the 1960 Ballon.

    I have to say the Il Calcio results look to be solid stuff for something made by two guys. It gets points for including SA and having players from every position. From the previous month's issue, here's a breakdown by position:
    8 GKs
    8 FBs
    8 CBs
    13 WHs
    25 FWs

    Il Calcio's best team:
    Yashin; Durkovic, Martinez; Szymaniak, Sipos, Benitez; Hamrin, Suarez, Seeler, Pele, Charlton

    Miroir were the rivals of France football. Their list is more over the place, typical French list. :D Jeffery actually does criticize the Ballon for having too much emphasis on forwards. He also makes note how a player that travels more, and thus is seen by more voters, has an advantage over a stay-at-home guy.

    Bonus: Kenneth Wolstenholme on Ballon 1960: "From an English viewpoint the results of the poll might shock some people". Haha, good ol' England.

    Attached Files:

    Gregoriak, msioux75 and PuckVanHeel repped this.
  2. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011

    So this should be the remainder then. It's not a perfect list, but it is informative. As said above, no NET players and no players with three full sentences, or less.

    Manfred Kaltz (West Germany - b. 1953)
    Jacek Kazimierski (Poland - b. 1959)
    Ludwig Kogl (West Germany - b. 1966)
    Kostadin Kostadinov (Bulgaria - b. 1959)
    Dariusz Kubicki (Poland - b. 1963)
    Oleg Kuznetsov (Soviet Union - b. 1963)

    Raoul Lambert (Belgium - b. 1944)
    Michael Laudrup (Denmark - b. 1964)
    John Lauridsen (Denmark - b. 1959)
    José Leandro (Brazil - b. 1959)
    Jim Leighton (Scotland - b. 1958)
    Soren Lerby (Denmark - b. 1958)
    Lima Pereira (Portugal - b. 1952)
    Gary Lineker (England - b. 1960)
    Gennady Litovtschenko (Soviet Union - b. 1963)
    Pierre Littbarski (West Germany - b. 1960)
    Wlodzimierz Lubanski (Poland - b. 1947)

    Antonio Maceda (Spain - b. 1957)
    Rabah Madjer (Algeria - b. 1954)
    Felix Magath (West Germany - b. 1953)
    Maurice Malpas (Scotland - b. 1962)
    Diego Maradona (Argentina - b. 1960)
    Paul Mariner (England - b. 1953)
    Martin Alvin (England - b. 1958)
    Lothar Matthaus (West Germany - b. 1961)
    Waldemar Matysik (Poland - b. 1961)
    Frank McAvennie (Scotland - b. 1959)
    David McGreery (Northern Ireland - b. 1957)
    Alan McDonald (Northern Ireland - b. 1963)
    Danny McGrain (Scotland - b. 1950)
    Sammy McIlroy (Northern Ireland - b. 1954)
    Alex McLeish (Scotland - b. 1959)
    Paul McStay (Scotland - b. 1964)
    Walter Meeuws (Belgium - b. 1951)
    Hugo Meisl (Austria - b. 1881)
    Migueli (Spain - b. 1951)
    Borislav Mihailov (Bulgaria - b. 1963)
    Willie Miller (Scotland - b. 1955)
    Stoicho Mladenov (Bulgaria - b. 1957)
    Wilfried van Moer (Belgium - b. 1945)
    Dieter Muller (West Germany - b. 1954)

    Phil Neal (England - b. 1951)
    Zdenek Nehoda (Czechoslovakia - b. 1952)
    Nene (Portugal - b. 1949)
    Charlie Nicholas (Scotland - b. 1961)
    Jimmy Nicholl (Northern Ireland - b. 1956)
    Steve Nicol (Scotland - b. 1961)
    Ivan Nielsen (Denmark - b. 1956)
    Bjorn Nordqvist (Sweden - b. 1942)
    Tibor Nylasi (Hungary - b. 1955)

    Jesper Olsen (Denmark - b. 1961)
    Morten Olsen (Denmark - b. 1949)
    John O'Neill (Northern Ireland - b. 1958)

    Jaime Pacheco (Portugal - b. 1958)
    Pedro Pasculli (Argentina - b. 1960)
    Daniel Passarella (Argentina - b. 1953)
    Pele (Brazil - b. 1940)
    Bruno Pezzey (Austria - b. 1955)
    Jean-Marie Pfaff (Belgium - b. 1953)
    Michel Platini (France - b. 1955)
    Herbert Prohaska (Austria - b. 1955)
    Oleg Protasov (Soviet Union - b. 1962)
    Wilfried Puis (Belgium - b. 1943)

    Quini (Spain - b. 1949)
    Ole Qvist (Denmark - b. 1950)

    Uwe Rahn (West Germany - b. 1962)
    Peter Reid (England - b. 1956)
    Renato Gaucho (Brazil - b. 1957)
    Michel Renquin (Belgium - b. 1955)
    Bryan Robson (England - b. 1957)
    Dominique Rocheteau (France - b. 1955)
    Ivon le Roux (France - b. 1960)
    Oscar Ruggeri (Argentina - b. 1961)
    Karl-Heinz Rummenigge (West Germany - b. 1955)

    Hugo Sanchez (Mexico - b. 1958)
    Kenny Sansom (England - b. 1958)
    Carlos Santillana (Spain - b. 1952)
    Willi Schulz (West Germany - b. 1938)
    Toni Schumacher (West Germany - b. 1954)
    Enzo Scifo (Belgium - b. 1966)
    Gaetano Scirea (Italy - b. 1953)
    Leon Semmeling (Belgium - b. 1940)
    Juan Antonio Senor (Spain - b. 1958)
    Graeme Sharp (Scotland - b. 1960)
    Peter Shilton (England - b. 1949)
    Allan Simonsen (Denmark - b. 1952)
    John Sivebaek (Denmark - b. 1961)
    Socrates (Brazil - b. 1954)
    Graeme Souness (Scotland - b. 1953)
    Uli Stein (West Germany - b. 1954)
    Trevor Steven (England - b. 1963)
    Gary Stevens (England - b. 1963)
    Uli Stielike (West Germany - b. 1954)
    Gordon Strachan (Scotland - b. 1957)
    Tengis Sulakvelidse (Soviet Union - b. 1956)
    Safet Susic (Yugoslavia - b. 1955)

    Franco Tancredi (Italy - b. 1955)
    Marco Tardelli (Italy - b. 1954)
    Jan Tomaszewski (Poland - b. 1948)
    Olaf Thon (West Germany - b. 1966)
    Hallvar Thoresen (Norway - b. 1957)
    Jean Tigana (France - b. 1955)
    Toninho Cerezo (Brazil - b. 1955)
    Jose Toure (France - b. 1961)
    Jean Trappeniers (Belgium - b. 1942)
    Fedor Tscherenkov (Soviet Union - b. 1958)
    Aleksander Chivadze (Soviet Union - b. 1955)
    Thierry Tusseau (France - b. 1958)

    Jorge Valdano (Argentina - b. 1955)
    Carl Valentine (Canada - b. 1958)
    Erwin Vandenbergh (Belgium - b. 1959)
    Rene Vandereycken (Belgium - b. 1953)
    Velibor Vasovic (Yugoslavia - b. 1939)
    Frank Vercauteren (Belgium - b. 1956)
    Pietro Vierchowod (Italy - b. 1959)
    Rudi Voller (West Germany - b. 1960)
    Eddy Voordeckers (Belgium - b. 1960)
    Zlatko Vujovic (Yugoslavia - b. 1958)

    Chris Waddle (England - b. 1960)
    John Wark (Scotland - b. 1957)
    Norman Whiteside (Northern Ireland - b. 1966)
    Ray Wilkins (England - b. 1956)
    Steven Williams (England - b. 1958)
    Michel de Wolf (Belgium - b. 1958)
    Tony Woodcock (England - b. 1955)
    Mark Wright (England - b. 1963)

    Aleksandr Zavarov (Soviet Union - b. 1961)
    Radoslav Zdravkov (Bulgaria - b. 1956)
    Zico (Brazil - b. 1953)
    Wladislaw Zmuda (Poland - b. 1954)
    comme repped this.
  3. arriaga

    arriaga Member

    Jun 27, 2017
    Back to King Football.

    The next few chapters focus on the spread of football to continental Europe, before reviewing the Olympic soccer tournaments.
    The 12-1 defeat of Sweden by England in 1908 could have been 30-1 without the goalie, who stopped an impressive 60% of the shots that came his way. Well, the French teams did even worse. It wasn't all bad, as the Swedes did well for 5 minutes. Quote from a magazine: "Normally, when playing against foreign teams, the English keeper has spent his time discussing 'daily gossip' with acquaintances, but on this occasion his peace was disturbed by the Swedes on several occasions".

    Next comes the most glorious moment in Finnish soccer history, the Olympic semi-final in 1912. It was considered a bit of an upset, as before the tournament the officials weren't sure whether they should send a team. A heartfelt letter by Finnish "football general" Kaarlo Soinio (author's brother and another international) and a successful tour in Russia conviced the committee it would be worth the investment. Finland beat Italy and Russia to reach the semis. Right-winger Filippov is mentioned as the best Russian player, too bad it doesn't say which of the two. The never-say-die 4-0 loss to Great Britain is mentioned as one of the finest performances of the NT (Hey, I'd take that result today!). In the third place match Finland lost 9-0 due to "exhaustion, injuries and other reasons, which shall be omitted on this occasion". I can guess. :D

    The final featured the expected England and Denmark. Pretty much every player is mentioned by name, with Woodward being the top guy for the British. Sophus "Krölleben" Nielsen gets the most mentions of the Danes, and Middleboe is named as the best centre-half in Europe. The Danish goal in the final was a legendary 35 meter giant-shot by Anton Olsen.

    Denmark and Holland played a English/Scottish short passing game, while the others were kick and rush (this was before Jimmy Hogan). Sweden played a mixture.

    To be continued...
    Gregoriak repped this.
  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Guerin Sportivo had 21-27 June 1995 (issue 25) these listed as the "grandi bomber".

    This was part 2; I think part 1 contained contemporary strikers but to be sure I ordered that too now.

    Gerd Muller (West Germany - b. 1945)
    Uwe Seeler (West Germany - b. 1936)
    Karl-Heinz Rummenigge (West Germany - b. 1955)
    Marco van Basten (Netherlands - b. 1964)
    Ruud Geels (Netherlands - b. 1948)
    Willy van der Kuylen (Netherlands - b. 1946)
    Eusebio (Portugal - b. 1942)
    Fernando Gomes (Portugal - b. 1956)
    Fernando Peyroteo (Portugal - b. 1918)
    Hugo Sanchez (Mexico - b. 1958)
    Quini (Spain - b. 1949)
    Mario Kempes (Argentina - b. 1954)
    Alfredo di Stefano (Argentina - b. 1926)
    Isidro Langara (Spain - b. 1912)
    Telmo Zarra (Spain - b. 1921)
    Ferenc Puskas (Hungary - b. 1927)
    Sandor Kocsis (Hungary - b. 1929)
    Gyula Zsengeller (Hungary - b. 1915)
    Gunnar Nordahl (Sweden - b. 1921)
    Jimmy Greaves (England - b. 1940)
    Ian Rush (Wales - b. 1961)
    Gary Lineker (England - b. 1960)
    Dixie Dean (England - b. 1903)
    Steve Bloomer (England - b. 1874)
    Jimmy McGrory (Scotland - b. 1903)
    Ally McCoist (Scotland - b. 1962)
    Carlos Bianchi (Argentina - b. 1949)
    Jean Pierre Papin (France - b. 1963)
    Just Fontaine (France - b. 1933)
    Delio Onnis (Argentina - b. 1948)
    Hans Krankl (Austria - b. 1953)
    Franz Binder (Austria - b. 1911)
    Josef Bican (Austria - b. 1913)
    Paul van Himst (Belgium - b. 1943)
    Erwin Vandenbergh (Belgium - b. 1959)
    Nikita Simonian (Soviet Union - b. 1926)
    Oleg Blokhin (Soviet Union - b. 1952)
    Josip Skoblar (Yugoslavia - b. 1941)
    Dudu Georgescu (Romania - b. 1950)
    Wlodzimierz Lubanski (Poland - b. 1947)
    Sotoris Kajafas (Cyprus - b. 1949)



    If you put this in google translate it says (no time/willingness right now to translate better):

    "The history of football is full of cannoniers able to score every year, caverns of goals. And also of less likely-to-played players to the opposite goalkeeper (so to speak), but they still left indelible traces of the heaviness of their prowess. One for everybody, Johan Cruijff: he has not been able to touch the numeric peaks of those who have been cited, but the goals of the Dutch "papero d'oro" [golden paper/gosling] have often decided the outcome of fundamental matches."

    Followed by a number of true center forwards and 'half' center forwards (John Charles, Sarosi etc.).

    Gregoriak and comme repped this.
  5. arriaga

    arriaga Member

    Jun 27, 2017
    Olympics in the 20s

    The 1920 Olympics are dismissed as a complete fiasco. Poorly arranged, officiated, and with a poor quality of soccer. The Nordic Countries had expected to perform well against war-worn nations, but the results were disappointing. Denmark arrogantly rested their best players, including their best striker Carl Hansen, in the preliminary against outsiders Spain. Zamora was "the most renowned football hero of the Olympics, and later the entire footballing world". This was the beginning of Denmark's great tradition of being eliminated by Spain. :) Norway's best player was Gunnar Andersen.

    The standard of European football exploded from 1921 on. Czechoslovakia, Austria, Switzerland and especially Hungary are mentioned as the strongest nations. Germany was expected to become the new England, but didn't rise higher than they did at the time due to too rigorous and discplined training methods.

    Hugo Meisl was a big Finland-fan, so in 1923 the NT went on a succesful tour in Central Europe, Beating Germany and losing narrowly to Austria and Hungary. "Would our current team be capable of such heroic feats with such good results? I have reason to doubt..." This book could have been written in 2017!
    Best players on the tour:
    Germany: Hans Sutor
    Austria: Kuthan and Wieser

    Onto 1924, and the outsiders Uruguay, who ended up showing some "greatest football of all time". The Uruguayan forward line and Mazzali get a mention. Besides them, it was said Andrade could even dribble with his ears, and Nasazzi was the finest defender the world had seen until then. Orth also gets a mention as a major star.

    The 1928 tournament didn't reach the same standards as the previous one, partly due to the many withdrawals. The review gets a lot more interesting with the addition of all the "more or less sun-scorched" countries. :D The Uruguayan amateurs, who enjoyed "minister wages", were no "helpless baby partridges". In the game against Germany, they used "insidious and discreet minor impudences", which resulted in more uncouth German payback. The Egyptian referee ended up sending off Germany's best player Hans Kalb, whose "powerful and crushing playing style was not to the taste of the effetely fastidious Egyptian nobleman". Grand-shooter Richard Hofmann also gets a mention.

    Argentina walked their way to the final, where they played a boring, possibly fixed, draw. The rematch, though, was played for real! "Rarely has such a fireworks display of fully rounded footballing finesse and growth of creative power been seen". The Argentinians were superior tactically, but "significantly behind the Uruguayans in acrobatic playing skills". Paternoster, Monti, Tarasconi and Orsi are described as true world-class.

    msioux75 repped this.
  6. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    In the meantime;

    The number one issue of 1995 by Guerin Sportivo had an appendix called "Il grande libro degli stranieri - tutti i giocatore esteri del calcio italiano dal 1929 a oggi", which was primarily for individual statistics.

    Gabriel Batistuta (Argentina - b. 1969)
    Claudio Caniggia (Argentina - b. 1967)
    Diego Maradona (Argentina - b. 1960)
    José Altafini (Brazil - b. 1938)
    Antonio Careca (Brazil - b. 1960)
    Paulo Roberto Falcao (Brazil - b. 1953)
    Zico (Brazil - b. 1953)
    Michel Platini (France - b. 1955)
    Gunnar Nordahl (Sweden - b. 1921)
    Ruben Sosa (Uruguay - b. 1966)

    In the main magazine "the emblematic Maradona stands for all the vibrancy, the colors, the shades of grey - and the subsequent collapse - of the 1980s."

    Although arguably a (typical) Italian viewpoint is discernible, these above players got highlighted in a cadre in the appendix.

    On the other hand, there were two extra pieces: Platini was designated as "perhaps the best and most consistent" creative foreigner in "Italian football" since the borders opened in 1980; and then there was another peculiar piece revolving around early import Krol ("an all-around defensive eye opener" and "together with Kohler some years later one of the very few foreign defenders to be actually the best in their job") and in the same piece the "not to be underestimated and necessary" role and tactical influence the "opinionated" Gullit and Van Basten had in establishing the Italian league as the foremost force in European football. Gullit ("one of the most charismatic figures of recent times") is praised for his time in Sampdoria, his completeness, as well as the idea he was the first black European to be "arguably" best in the world and the first black European to lift a major international trophy as captain. "Milan is still missing the often broken and battered 'swan of Utrecht' to this very day."

    I found this in a library, but in the meantime I try to search for something better and I think I'll receive something from 1987 later (on the first 60 years of the league with foreigners, by GS).
  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    For completeness (not necessarily relevant for this thread, unlike part 2):

    Part 1 were indeed contemporary strikers.

    Alan Shearer (England - b. 1970)
    Ivan Zamorano (Chile - b. 1967)
    Jurgen Klinsmann (Germany - b. 1964)
    Gabriel Batistuta (Argentina - b. 1969)
    Romario (Brazil - b. 1966)
    Ronaldo (Brazil - b. 1976)

    Then further highlighted honorable mentions for: Abel Balbo (Argentina and AS Roma - b. 1966), Mario Basler (Germany and Werder Bremen - b. 1968), Bentinho (Brazil and Sao Paolo - b. 1971), Stan Collymore (England and Nottingham Forest - 1971), Andy Cole (England and Manchester United - b. 1971), Martin Dahlin (Sweden and Borussia MG - b. 1968), Giles de Bilde (Belgium and Eendracht Aalst - b. 1971), Jose Oscar Flores (Argentina and Velez Sarsfield - b. 1971), Robbie Fowler (England and Liverpool - b. 1975), Marco Grassi (Switzerland and Rennes - b. 1968), Patrick Kluivert (Netherlands and Ajax - b. 1976), Meho Kodro (Bosnia and Real Sociedad - b. 1967), Darko Kovacevic (Yugoslavia and Red Star Belgrade - b. 1973).

    Needless to say that the likes of Savicevic just weren't seen as 'bomber'.
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    So this was the 1995 Four Four Two list, as posted previously by @peterhrt

    It is similar to the 1989 Super Ballon d'Or by France Football (although the SBdO was also decided by journalists, the readers and the television viewers), the 1999 player of the century by France Football, the 2004 Champions Magazine poll (maybe in terms of method the best attempt of the lot), the 50 years Ballon d'Or survey (2005) and 50 years World Soccer survey (2010) in the sense that peers were asked, instead of the public or journalists. Managers, chairmen as Ken Bates and officials like Blatter and Havelange voted as well.

    (click to enlarge)

    They rightly mock the selection of Micky Droy by Neil Ruddock. Pelé finishes first, surprise, despite one third not having him in their top five. About some shortened careers (except George Best, effectively done at 27) like MvB they remark "But for a spate of nagging injuries, the songs of praise for Van Basten [by peers] would doubtless have been greater." The next one to receive a similar comment is Gascoigne.

    1 Pele
    2 Cruyff
    3 Best
    4 Maradona
    5 Beckenbauer
    6 Di Stefano
    7 Platini
    8 Dalglish
    9 Charlton
    10 Moore
    11 Matthews
    12 Finney
    13 Van Basten
    14 Hoddle
    15 Zico
    16 John Charles
    17 Eusebio
    18 Gullit
    19 Puskas
    20 Gascoigne
    21 Muller
    22 Edwards
    23 Banks
    24 Romario
    25 Bryan Robson
    26 Gerson
    27 Rivelino
    28 Yashin
    29 Keegan
    30 Giggs
    31 Brady
    32 Garrincha
    33 Baresi
    34 Dave Mackay
    35 Kempes
    36 Souness
    37 Baggio
    38 Klinsmann
    39 Blanchflower
    40 Baxter
    41 Lineker
    42 Alan Hudson
    43 Frank Worthington
    44 Jennings
    45 Rivera
    46 Waddle
    47 Beardsley
    48 Shilton
    49 Quixall
    50 Strachan
    51 Bowles
    52 Shearer
    53 Doherty
    54 Lawrenson
    55 Bobby Murdoch
    56 Mannion
    57 Billy Wright
    58 Stoichkov
    59 Trevor Francis
    60 McFarland
    61 Todd
    62 Tommy Langley
    63 John Robertson
    64 John Mitchell
    65 Hagi
    66 Jesper Olsen
    67 Law
    68 Micky Droy
    69 Mark Hughes
    70 Passarella
    71 Rocheteau
    72 Billy Bonds
    73 Michael Laudrup
    74 Alan Hansen
    75 Krol
    76 Maldini
    77 Brooking
    78= Sheringham
    78= Dennis Wise
    80 Beattie
    81 Frank Soo
    82 Bloomer
    83 Gary Shaw
    84 Greaves
    85 Stubbins
    86 Trautmann
    87= Sandro Mazzola
    87= Haller
    89 McAllister
    90 Rossi
    91 Elkjaer
    92 Cantona
    93 Riva
    94 Brian Clough
    95 Rodney Marsh
    96 Arnold Muhren
    97= Kanckelskis
    97= Ian Wright
    99 Jairzinho
    100 Milla

    December 2002 was the 100th issue of Four Four Two. Although it is doubtful they placed them in order (besides, the likes of Rush, Netzer and Rummenigge receiving more 'speaking time' as Pelé and as much as Maradona) it is nevertheless interesting to compare who is included in both. Beckham is #2 despite having only 1/4th or 1/5th of the space of Rush for instance, and about 1/3rd or 1/4th of Maradona. The shortest answers are given by Cruijff, Gullit, Dalglish and Romario while defining Premiership stars Cantona (#92 in 1995) and Bergkamp declined to be interviewed.


    1. Pelé (1)
    2. Beckham
    3. Puskas (19)
    4. Platini (7)
    5. Weah
    6. Cruyff (2)
    7. Billy McNeill
    8. Lineker (41)
    9. Jairzinho (99)
    10. Rummenigge
    11. Baggio (37)
    12. Lofthouse
    13. Bryan Robson (25)
    14. Matthaus
    15. Fontaine
    16. Liam Brady (31)
    17. Ardiles
    18. Stan Bowles (51)
    19. Alex McLeish
    20. Sandro Mazzola (87)
    21. Rivaldo
    22. Paolo Rossi (90)
    23. Nobby Stiles
    24. Rijkaard
    25. Archie Gemmill
    26. Alfredo di Stefano (6)
    27. Stoichkov (58)
    28. George Best (3)
    29. Neville Southall
    30. Tom Finney (11)
    31. Batistuta
    32. Zico (15)
    33. Gullit (18)
    34. Voller
    35. Eusebio (17)
    36. Shearer (52)
    37. Johnny Giles
    38. Dalglish (8)
    39. Neeskens
    40. Tony Adams
    41. Rivera (45)
    42. Roberto Carlos
    43. Klinsmann (38)
    44. Cubillas
    45. Zidane
    46. Rivelino (27)
    47. Souness (36)
    48. Alan Hansen (74)
    49. Jennings (44)
    50. Baresi (33)
    51. Michael Owen
    52. Facchetti
    53. Trautmann (86)
    54. Valderrama
    55. Figo
    56. Hurst
    57. Belanov
    58. Francescoli
    59. Ronaldo
    60. Boniek
    61. Hoddle (14)
    62. Netzer
    63. Jack Charlton
    64. Stuart Pearce
    65. Johnstone
    66. Milla (100)
    67. Hugo Sanchez
    68. Beckenbauer (5)
    69. Gascoigne (20)
    70. Dragan Stojkovic
    71. Carlos Alberto
    72. Johnny Haynes
    73. Hagi (65)
    74. Riva (93)
    75. Raul
    76. Brian Clough (94)
    77. Romario (24)
    78. Schmeichel
    79. John Barnes
    80. Bobby Charlton (9)
    81. John Charles (16)
    82. Hierro
    83. Zoff
    84. Socrates
    85. Shilton (48)
    86. Van Basten (13)
    87. Varallo
    88. Paolo Maldini (76)
    89. Ian Rush
    90. Kempes (35)
    91. Banks (23)
    92. Gento
    93. Butragueno
    94. McCoist
    95. Bobby Robson
    96. Blokhin
    97. Higuita
    98. Norman Hunter
    99. Ryan Giggs (30)
    100. Maradona (4)

    The foreword by the editor says "we asked 100 living legends in the game" - they're all numbered but I may hope this was not in order. Nevertheless with the earlier 1995 list in mind (albeit by peers, and not only 'living') it becomes somewhat more informative.
    comme repped this.
  9. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    This is a list of greats from the 1988-89 Annuario del Calcio Mondiale. There are brief profiles of all named:

    Ben Barek
    De Vecchi
    Di Stefano
    Walter Gomez
    Ferenc Hirzer
    Emlyn Hughes
    Sandro Mazzola
    Valentino Mazzola
    Bjorn Nordquist
    Dino Sani
    Djalma Santos
    Nilton Santos
    Geza Toldi
    Van Himst
    PuckVanHeel repped this.
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    This is not too old - maybe therefore not previously posted - but this was the prominent L'Equipe publication in 1999. It is also published in the book "100 rois pour un siècle".

    The good thing is that they were aware of the breakdown per birth period, breakdown by nation, how many midfielders and defenders were included (10 defenders), and that for example Ballon d'Or laureates Belanov and Baggio (as well as Sammer) are left out of their top 100. They are aware of what they did. Of course also clearly a French perspective - also with respect to someone as Weah, Francescoli - but nevertheless interesting to share and it isn't made up by one or two persons (at times showing the discussion, esp. with respect to world cup wonders).

    1 - Pelé
    2 - Johan Cruijff
    3 - Michel Platini
    4 - Diego Maradona
    5 - Alfredo di Stefano
    6 - Franz Beckenbauer
    7 - Ferenc Puskas
    8 - Gerd Muller
    9 - Bobby Charlton
    10 - Garrincha
    11 - Marco van Basten
    12 - Omar Sivori
    13 - Eusebio
    14 - Leonidas
    15 - Zico
    16 - Zinedine Zidane
    17 - Matthias Sindelar
    18 - Stanley Matthews
    19 - Luis Suarez
    20 - Romario
    21 - Karl-Heinz Rummenigge
    22 - Ronaldo
    23 - Uwe Seeler
    24 - Franco Baresi
    25 - Johan Neeskens
    26 - Raymond Kopa
    27 - Kevin Keegan
    28 - Lothar Matthaus
    29 - George Best
    30 - Francisco Gento
    31 - Just Fontaine
    32 - Gunther Netzer
    33 - Jose Leandro Andrade
    34 - Luigi Riva
    35 - Gianni Rivera
    36 - Paul Breitner
    37 - Roberto Bettega
    38 - Sandor Kocsis
    39 - Jozsef Bozsik
    40 - Florian Albert
    41 - Didi
    42 - Silvio Piola
    43 - Ruud Gullit
    44 - Kenny Dalglish
    45 - Jean-Pierre Papin
    46 - Jimmy Greaves
    47 - Allan Simonsen
    48 - Fritz Walter
    49 - Oleg Blokhin
    50 - Zbigniew Boniek
    51 - Paulo Roberto Falcao
    52 - Gabriel Batistuta
    53 - Bobby Moore
    54 - Ademir
    55 - Paul van Himst
    56 - Wolfgang Overath
    57 - Mario Kempes
    58 - Denis Law
    59 - Socrates
    60 - Giuseppe Meazza
    61 - Gerson
    62 - Tostao
    63 - George Weah
    64 - Paolo Maldini
    65 - Jairzinho
    66 - Laszlo Kubala
    67 - Dragoslav Sekularac
    68 - Juan Alberto Schiaffino
    69 - Josef Masopust
    70 - Rainer Bonhof
    71 - Dennis Bergkamp
    72 - Giacinto Facchetti
    73 - Teofilo Cubillas
    74 - Sandro Mazzola
    75 - Kazimierz Deyna
    76 - Lilian Thuram
    77 - Marcel Desailly
    78 - Dixie Dean
    79 - Gheorghe Hagi
    80 - Salif Keita
    81 - José Cea
    82 - Nilton Santos
    83 - Frank Rijkaard
    84 - Grzegorz Lato
    85 - Adolfo Pedernera
    86 - Michael Laudrup
    87 - Jurgen Klinsmann
    88 - Hristo Stoichkov
    89 - Johann Krankl
    90 - Rabah Madjer
    91 - Paolo Rossi
    92 - Dragan Dzajic
    93 - Roger Milla
    94 - Ruud Krol
    95 - Enzo Francescoli
    96 - Larbi Ben Barek
    97 - Nils Liedholm
    98 - Uli Hoeness
    99 - José Altafini
    100 - Alain Giresse

    1 - Lev Yashin
    2 - Dino Zoff
    3 - Gordon Banks
    4 - Sepp Maier
    5 - Fabien Barthez
    6 - Peter Shilton
    7 - Ricardo Zamora
    8 - Peter Schmeichel
    9 - Julien Da Rui
    10 - Rinat Dasaev
    11 - Ladislao Mazurkiewicz

    Despite some odd names thrown in there, some of the things behind the numerical order are quite good and well done. I do find Baggio being thrown out of this a mistake.
    PDG1978 repped this.
  11. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    If Baggio doesn't make it then Romario shouldn't either. I always felt Romario was crowned the world's best by default to some extent. It was more Baggio's crown to lose. Romario didn't exactly take the mantle away from Baggio, it was Baggio who relinquished it in the final of USA '94.

    The interesting part is that this time Zico and Rummenigge are quite close and in accordance with how it was back in their day.

    Pedernera, Sivori, Kempes and Batistuta are listed but no Moreno or Antonio Sastre.
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    This are their profiles, just for interest.

    Vegan10 repped this.
  13. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I sort of like that they presented them in alphabetical order but ranked them too somehow!

    Nice that they made profiles in a book rather than only a list too.
  14. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    @PDG1978 @comme

    Received this a 1.5 months ago but hadn't the time back then and then forgot it.

    In October 2010 Guerin Sportivo had a special issue about the first 30 years the borders of the Serie A had opened. It is called "Trent'anni di frontiere riaperte - I Grandi Stranieri". The issue has no adverts and is 160 pages long (on ~A4 format).

    They started with the three players that made (in their view) the most impact. In order of appearance:

    Marco van Basten (final editor of the piece was the chief of Corriere dello Sport)
    Diego Maradona (final editor was the chief of Tuttosport)
    Ronaldo (final editor was the chief of Guerin Sportivo)

    They aren't ranked, but qualitative and quantitative arguments are given about their impact.

    Then amidst pictures and comments other notable players (Prohaska, Leo Junior, Elkjaer, Gullit, Seedorf, Ibrahimovic to name a few), and other aspect of the game, these got each a lengthy profile on top:

    Paulo Roberto Falcao
    Michel Platini
    Diego Maradona
    Marco van Basten
    Lothar Matthaus
    Gabriel Batistuta
    Zinedine Zidane
    Andriy Shevchenko
    Pavel Nedved
    Javier Zanetti

    Those are not ranked either.

    Apart from possibly Zanetti (this was published after the Inter treble, but before the loss in the Club World Cup and such), this selection is actually not too bad. They mention and specify Nedved's consistency. The title of Zidane's piece is "the timid champion", which is meant as multi-faceted.

    Contexts are given too, some interesting sub-cadres, and overall it is not too bad and even contemplative at times (or: 'at many occasions').
    comme and PDG1978 repped this.
  15. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Nice find. Perhaps Platini missing the 'podium' so to speak the most interesting/surprising(?) call? How many players are mentioned in total (in the same way as Elkjaer, Gullit...)?
    PuckVanHeel repped this.
  16. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Yes I think so too. In the 15 years review (from 1995) they were very positive on Platini. See post #106.

    There is of course a distinction between "best" and "most impact" although I'm sure Platini deserves to be considered for impact too. The 2010 pieces really revolve the most around the impact/influence.

    I can post scans if you like.

    Hope I don't overlook any but;

    These are individually pictured with the comments leaning towards this:


    Leo Junior
    Daniel Passarella
    Preben Elkjaer
    Ruud Gullit
    Thomas Skuhravy
    Andreas Brehme
    Paul Gascoigne
    George Weah
    Rui Costa
    Clarence Seedorf
    Zlatan Ibrahimovic


    Trevor Francis (Francis was often injured; ratings and production are indeed sound)

    Not a success:

    Luis Silvio

    Here a comparison:
    PDG1978 repped this.
  17. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Thanks. A couple of links I noticed (there was also a Football Italia Channel 4 top 100, picked from players who starred during the period they broadcast games, chosen by the editorial team maybe, albeit possibly not labelled 'best/greatest' but half-way towards favourite/most noted or something, but I can't find reference to it - it wasn't only for foreigners and I think Baggio and Maldini were right towards or at the top, Batistuta was quite close, Savicevic was indeed in the 20 something range, like Rui Costa and also Shevchenko though I'm pretty sure it was selected mid-way through his Serie A career or earlier...Gascoigne was in but near the bottom of the list):
    (Hope you forgive/look past the dubious reference to Cruyff regarding the 1994 match; to be honest I just couldn't overlook Savicevic's omission from that list of 50 lol so wanted to find something to post regarding him, but I assume place 23 is indeed given to Stankovic and it's not a typo!).
  18. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Another name I'm surprised not to see, perhaps moreso than Savicevic, in that top 50 foreign Serie A players list, is Juan Sebastian Veron.

    Savicevic's case might be more prime form based (and for me also prime season/s overall I'd feel - 94/95 and to an extent 95/96) and European competition performances are not considered so that feasibly reduces his case (but to be clear, and I saw a lot of Serie A in his time, I'd easily include him even if trying to make the list more about consistency/longevity).

    Veron though, for a foreign player, had several good to very good seasons surely.
    PuckVanHeel repped this.
  19. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Yes I'd say so too. For one of the 50 names or the 'honorable mention' (like Ibrahimovic etc.) type of thing he would be a proper fit. Personally I'm more convinced about his capabilities than Riquelme (in particular when doing it reliably for and against the best teams) - but that conversation doesn't fit here.

    In skill he might belong there although on e.g. Youtube one can find several wonderful passes by the likes of Prohaska, Nedved and Seedorf too.

    Maybe his 'flop' spell at Manchester United and - more so - Chelsea when he was 26 to 29 years old did not help.

    His very best season is 1999-00 I think. His grade is the best, scored more goals than in other years, had more appearances than in other years and had double digits assists in the league (in other seasons not more than 5 or 6).

    A good candidate for second best Serie A season is actually 2004-05, at a real top team. There he had 3 (or 4) assists and 3 goals across all 39 games, but that was not his main job and strength. His job was to run the show and run the team. In that department he belonged among the world elite, and he could do it against the better teams too.

    Quite a bit has been said and written about the differences between Serie A and Premier League, but I also wonder whether people hadn't a wrong picture of him. They thought he would make a wonder assist every other game (which almost no player at the time was able to do). But the 1999-00 season aside, and some campaigns here and there (the 2001-02 and 2002-03 Champions League seasons; the 1998 World Cup), he wasn't a consistent assist machine. Not for the league at least. He was there, as said, to run the show if lined up with a good shuttler (Stankovic at Inter) and/or a good defensive midfielder. But for running midfield Manchester United had already Roy Keane and at Chelsea (in a different way) Frank Lampard. Playing Veron higher up on the pitch did not work well either, and negated what he could do best.

    I'd say Veron had about four very good (or better) Serie A seasons, with 1999-00 as his zenith. That very well might be more than adequate to merit a place in the top 50 or the broader circle.
  20. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yeah, I'd say at Sampdoria (perhaps 96/97 is in the mix among best seasons? I guess his Parma one is boosted a bit by games outside Serie A which might not be considered?) he was playing in a manner/role closer to a Vieira than a Zidane probably.

    I suppose Man Utd were never looking to replace Keane, or drop Scholes. Ferguson wanted to develop a team with a 5 man midfield which he thought would help to do well in Europe I think didn't he? Despite mixed form, Veron was making some nice passes and producing some assists I recall, early-ish in his Man Utd career.
  21. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011

    I think 1998-99 and 2004-05 are the main candidates for his 2nd best season (1999-00 being his best) - overall and in Serie A.

    The 1998 World Cup and (to a lesser degree) the preceding 1997-98 season made that he was picked up by ambitious Parma (nicknamed 'FC Pharma' in Holland, LOL).

    Sampdoria finished 6th and 9th when he played there, and logically he was under the radar. His ratings are solid but not as good as team mates Mihajlovic, Montella, Mancini (in 1996-97) and Bohossian and Montella (in 1997-98).

    The 1998 World Cup to November 2000 was his zenith I'd say (rest of 2000-01 troubled by injuries), while playing for/against competitive teams.

    His Sampdoria seasons might be over-appreciated in memory, the 2004-05 season unfairly overlooked I'd say.
  22. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    'Calcio 2000' had January 2000 also a list with 150 players, which are not ranked.

    It leans heavily on players who once played in Italy, or were a major success there. Thus no Michael Laudrup in there, while others get in.

    It has some inclusions born in the 19th century. The two youngest to get in were Ronaldo (b. 1976) and Maldini (b. 1968). In terms of Ballon d'Or winners Kevin Keegan was the main omission, and as double winner apparently not good enough for the 150 born between 1890 and 1968.

    The next in line to get in - or added - were maybe/probably Batistuta and Bergkamp (both born 1969), with both getting high praise by the magazine.

    Either way, I'll post those 150 later. I'm busy with ordering them by birthyear and also signalling with an asterisk whether they played in Italy (= many of them).

    Although those 150 are not ranked (for a reason), the chief editor had his own answer on page 5.


    (I think his answers are evident without needing rudimentary translation)
    annoyedbyneedoflogin repped this.
  23. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011

    I think it is especially interesting for players who were active in Italy, so I marked those with an asterisk.

    It are 150 players.

    Friedenreich (b. 1892)

    De Vecchi (b. 1894) *

    Baloncieri (b. 1897) *

    Scarone (b. 1898) *

    Andrade (b. 1901)

    James (b. 1901)

    Libonatti (b. 1901) *

    Monti (b. 1901) *

    Nasazzi (b. 1901)

    Orsi (b. 1901) *

    Gyorgy Orth (b. 1901) *

    Zamora (b. 1901)

    Combi (b. 1902) *

    Rosetta (b. 1902) *

    Sindelar (b. 1903)

    Petrone (b. 1905) *

    Schiavio (b. 1905) *

    Stabile (b. 1905) *

    Cesarini (b. 1906) *

    Monzeglio (b. 1906) *

    Dean (b. 1907)

    Ferrari (b. 1907) *

    Hapgood (b. 1908)

    Ferreyra (b. 1909)

    Meazza (b. 1910) *

    Olivieri (b. 1910) *

    Binder (b. 1911)

    Andreolo (b. 1912) *

    Domingos da Guia (b. 1912)

    Leonidas (b. 1913)

    Piola (b. 1913) *

    Biavati (b. 1915) *

    Erico (b. 1915)

    Matthews (b. 1915)

    Moreno (b. 1916)

    Varela (b. 1917)

    Labruna (b. 1918)

    Pedernera (b. 1918)

    Loik (b. 1919) *

    Valentino Mazzola (b. 1919) *

    Gren (b. 1920) *

    Walter (b. 1920)

    Castigliano (b. 1921) *

    Mortenson (b. 1921)

    Nordahl (b. 1921) *

    Ademir (b. 1922)

    Hidegkuti (b. 1922)

    Liedholm (b. 1922) *

    Loustau (b. 1922)

    Zizinho (b. 1922)

    Wright (b. 1924)

    Bozsik (b. 1925)

    Maroso (b. 1925) *

    Nilton Santos (b. 1925)

    Schiaffino (b. 1925) *

    Di Stefano (b. 1926)

    Ghiggia (b. 1926) *

    Kubala (b. 1927)

    Puskas (b. 1927)

    Beara (b. 1928)

    Boniperti (b. 1928) *

    Didi (b. 1928)

    Czibor (b. 1929)

    Julinho (b. 1929) *

    Yashin (b. 1929)

    Kocsis (b. 1929)

    Djalma Santos (b. 1929)

    Skoglund (b. 1929) *

    Gilmar (b. 1930)

    Charles (b. 1931) *

    Kopa (b. 1931)

    Zagallo (b. 1931)

    Fontaine (b. 1933)

    Garrincha (b. 1933)

    Gento (b. 1933)

    Hamrin (b. 1934) *

    Coluna (b. 1935)

    Sivori (b. 1935) *

    Suarez (b. 1935) *

    Seeler (b. 1936)

    Banks (b. 1937)

    B. Charlton (b. 1937)

    Altafini (b. 1938) *

    Albertosi (b. 1939) *

    Burgnich (b. 1939) *

    Haller (b. 1939) *

    Schnellinger (b. 1939) *

    Cubilla (b. 1940)

    Greaves (b. 1940) *

    Law (b. 1940) *

    Pelé (b. 1940)

    Boninsegna (b. 1941) *

    Gerson (b. 1941)

    Hurst (b. 1941)

    Moore (b. 1941)

    Eusebio (b. 1942)

    Facchetti (b. 1942) *

    Sandro Mazzola (b. 1942) *

    Zoff (b. 1942) *

    Chumpitaz (b. 1943)

    Overath (b. 1943)

    Rivera (b. 1943) *

    Van Himst (b. 1943)

    Carlos Alberto (b. 1944)

    Maier (b. 1944)

    Riva (b. 1944) *

    Beckenbauer (b. 1945)

    Mazurkiewicz (b. 1945)

    Muller (b. 1945)

    Best (b. 1946)

    Rivelino (b. 1946)

    Cruijff (b. 1947)

    Deyna (b. 1947)

    Tostao (b. 1947)

    Causio (b. 1949) *

    Cubillas (b. 1949)

    Krol (b. 1949) *

    Shilton (b. 1949)

    Bettega (b. 1950) *

    Breitner (b. 1951)

    Neeskens (b. 1951)

    Ardiles (b. 1952)

    Blokhin (b. 1952)

    Morena (b. 1952)

    Falcao (b. 1953) *

    Gentile (b. 1953) *

    Passarella (b. 1953) *

    Scirea (b. 1953) *

    Zico (b. 1953) *

    Antognoni (b. 1954) *

    Leo Junior (b. 1954) *

    Kempes (b. 1954)

    Tardelli (b. 1954) *

    Conti (b. 1955) *

    Platini (b. 1955) *

    Rummenigge (b. 1955) *

    Rossi (b. 1956) *

    Cabrini (b. 1957) *

    Baresi (b. 1960) *

    Lineker (b. 1960)

    Maradona (b. 1960) *

    Matthaus (b. 1961) *

    Gullit (b. 1962) *

    Bergomi (b. 1963) *

    Van Basten (b. 1964) *

    Romario (b. 1966)

    Stoichkov (b. 1966) *

    Baggio (b. 1967) *

    Maldini (b. 1968) *

    Ronaldo (b. 1976) *

    Some of the issues of this magazine can be found on soccernostalgia.blogspot too.
    annoyedbyneedoflogin, comme and PDG1978 repped this.
  24. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    To give an idea, here is an example of a profile. All profiles are about equally long. All about half a page.

    comme repped this.
  25. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Gregoriak repped this.

Share This Page