Offside Question

I agree with Code. This is is the kind of play where the R can help the AR by following up--the R should have been able to recognize this was likely OS.

(While its possible there was a defender off the screen keeping him on, that seems unlikely as we don't see a red shirt running in.)

 

No reason in law not to give this offside offence. I also don't see how the AR missed it. It's not as if the two players challenged for the ball and it came off them more or less simultaneously. The defender clearly plays the ball upfield and it then rebounds back off the attacker. I think it's just a total brain freeze by the AR. I have seen discussions where people were getting confused about the difference between a deliberate play and a deflection only being a consideration for a defender's touch and mistakenly thinking of applying it to an attacker's touch.

I'm wondering if just maybe, in the heat of the moment, the AR somehow thinks that because the ball was kicked against the forward, it's not offside - that's about the only thing I can see that makes sense here.

 

Own goal resets offside.

 

Based on the changes from IFAB recently I wouldn’t be shocked if that was a proposed change.

Because you know, we need to address the big issues.

 

Now now, good sir. You must include the winky in this situation.

 

I wore mine out.

 

Well, it was hot enough that water breaks were taken. I hate to offer this opinion in the Referee forum, but ...

What is most curious is that none of the defenders (including the GK) recognized the (possibility of) offside, no frantic waving, not even a sign that something might be amiss.

As some commotion of this sort 'always' happens when offside is at issue, an experienced linesman would become accustomed to it, and seeing none would tend to go about his business.

More charitably, as suggested above, this one requires teamwork between the CR (who sees the ball come off the offensive player but doesn't see the offside position) and the AR (who sees the position but not who played the ball last).

The most likely explanation is that this was a preseason friendly played on an uncomfortably warm day and no one really cared about whether this goal should have been disallowed.

 

A horrible miss by the AR, to be frank. I think it’s a great teaching clip, tho. The AR got smartly down with the ball til the gk clearance but when it went back upfield, he was too relaxed in recovering the offside line. if he had hustled to get back to 2ld it would have been an easy call. As it is my guess is that he was not 100% sure the piop was actually in offside position.

 

Sorry, this is utter nonsense. Assistant referees are not paying attention to the commotion from the players. They are judging, on every touch by an attacking player, whether any teammate is in offside position, and if so keeping that picture in their heads to see if there is active involvement until the next touch by an attacker, which resets the picture they keep in their heads. The lack of commotion had absolutely nothing to do with a no call. He just missed it.

More utter nonsense. ARs get judged on the calls they make. Regardless of the players, the AR cared about getting the call correct as it affects his career.

 

LOL. Players call the game all the time - you should watch more attentively. But that wasn't my point. My point was the curiosity of the players blowing the call, because a defender's first instinct (these days) is to 'call offside' by raising his hand, or at least look longingly at the linesman for help. No defender here seemed to understand the situation. If one of them had, he might have at least persuaded the two referees to communicate with each other.

LOL. You're wrong, it's over, no one cared then, and no one really cares now.

 

Damn. You really hurt my feelings with your condescending ignorance.

 

Watch the clip again. This is how defenders (who care) react. Always.



To call for a foul. To signal offside. Always.



Nothing to see here, moving on ...

 

Who cares? That has nothing whatsoever to do with what ARs call. Nothing. Players have this delusion that ARs are waiting for their help to make a call. They aren't. (At least not those with enough skill to get to a high level.) They've made a decision as to whether the player was in an OSP at the time the ball was touched before the player has a chance to get involved. You really have no idea how referees work.

Over and out.

 

To signal "I'm beat, please bail me out..."

 

Yeah, you tell him. He has no idea what it's like to be an MLS AR.

 

I'm just going to re-word some of your post...for illustrative purposes of course.

"LOL. Players try and cheat all the time - you should watch more attentively. But that wasn't my point. My point was the curiosity of the players not trying to influence the call, because a defender's first instinct (these days...where trying to cheat and getting the face of the refs is acceptable) is to 'call offside' by raising his hand, or at least look longingly at the linesman for recognition that the attacker was too fast. No defender here seemed to understand the situation."

Falls into the same category of when a ball goes over the touchline and both sides raise their hand for the throw in. Every time. Drives me nuts. STOP TRYING TO CHEAT.

 

Thanks for the assist there, much appreciated. There's the way things should be, and the way things really are. Much discussion on this forum focuses on the former - I was simply illustrating the latter. Thanks for adding your perspective.

Maybe things are different down under. In the US, players (and coaches) 'work' the officials - almost continuously in some sports (e.g., basketball) - trying to 'influence' the referees' calls. Future calls, I mean, as (absent VAR) referees almost never change their current call.

But you've raised an interesting illustration - when the ball goes out of play. As a referee you got caught with the sun in your eyes. You see the ball has gone out of play, with a member of one team going to retrieve it and the members of the other team moving into a defensive position. You 'know' whose ball it is - the players' actions have told you. It's when the right to possession is disputed - as it often is, though 'cheating' is a strong word to use - that you need to make a call. Just hope your assistant is more attentive than the one in this case.

The extraordinary thing about the video clip is not the blown call - calls are missed 'all the time' - it's the defensive players' reactions. Not one recognized the possibility of offside. Nor did their coach, apparently. Neither referee gave the play a second thought.

 

I am glad you all agree that this should be whistled for offside. I had a very similar play a couple weeks ago as an AR on an amateur men's league game. I popped the flag and it was called. The CR after the game asked me about the play and asked if I was sure it was offside. She is a pretty experienced state referee. I said definitely, it was played by an attacking player to a player in an offside position. She questioned it because it was not really played, more like deflected too. I thought it didn't make a difference but she wasn't sure. Good to know you are all in agreement.

 

Actually the illustration I raised was for 99.9% of the time that the sun is NOT in my eyes but both teams still raise their arms declaring the throw in is theirs. One of those teams is right...the other is trying to cheat. Strong word? yep.
On very few occasions, they honestly believe it, most of the time, they do it to convince the A.R., even though they know otherwise. That's cheating. (dishonesty) At least at 10u and 12u you can ask a player who kicked it out and get an honest reply...which proves that this is a learned trait. Coaches who teach this must be so proud.

 

Yikes, it's not played, it's played or last touched by a teammate. Good grief.