Bumped... Oh my. Garth Lagerwey with some HUGE shade towards the Revolution. When asked about bringing Kelyn Rowe to Seattle "Have you ever tried to deal with New England?" #YachtConPrime #Sounders pic.twitter.com/6HDAEVLXVB— Miki Turner (@turneresq) February 24, 2018
Miki Turner @turneresq Feb 24 Replying to @turneresq He also referenced the Lee Nguyen situation and basically said, "that's how they operate."
Yet, some teams manage to do it. Is it really our concern that after the Revs do a deal with someone they get a good score on the post-deal satisfaction survey?
No. The key part is that if all teams are willing to deal with you, you have a better chance of getting what's best as a return. If only X number of teams are willing to deal with you, your return shrinks.
This is about teams not wanting to work with us at all. Our FO's reputation across the league is abysmal. Mike Burns is essentially running a business and his conduct and reputation are so poor that no one is interested in doing business with him. That stinks if you ask me.
I have to wonder what players this team could have had if all the teams in MLS felt the Revs were a fair and reasonable team to deal with. If your reputation is tarnished around the league do you really think other GM's will even bother calling you if they know they are going to get jerked around or not even have your calls returned which is one complaint that I had heard. I rather have 22 possible resources at my finger tips than 5 or 6
This isn't a Red Auerbach situation, where Burns is so smart that teams are afraid they might get fleeced if they deal with him. Have you ever called customer service, and had such a bad experience that you vow to never call them again, no matter what your issue is? That is the Burns reputation we are dealing with here. It is not a good thing.
Looking at the 3 latest "trades" of actual players: Kamara, Lee, and Nemeth - I think those were pretty good "deals" for the Revs, weren't they? I know one can argue, why did we even go for Kamara and Nemeth in the first place - but I put that more on Heaps. I am less concerned about inter-league trades of actual players and draft picks as more homegrowns dominate. Sometimes they help - but trades mean you gotta give something up. If you go outside the league for players and you do your homegrowns/youth development right - then you are just giving up your own money - that is where Kraft comes in. But I do get the point that having MLS teams not want to negotiate does make it harder to maximize ALL options to try and improve your roster because GAM/TAM, international slots, and moving up in allocation orders I think are very valuable. I am much more concerned about players playing out their contracts because they don't like the Revs and how the Revs have handled their own contracts/raises. I am much more concerned about the Revs not being able to attract top players outside the league because of bad reputation to the players and agents - maybe because of inexperienced or hardball contract negotiations out in the marketplace, poor stadium, not a quality coach, - it becomes a perpetual cycle since really good players want to play with really good players - and if no good players want to come here.... There was a reason Parkhurst(and others) played out his contract and then wanted nothing to do with the Revs when he came back. I think Friedel has really changed some of that since Heaps was just way too much out of his element. And I think Friedel has helped the Revs front office "realize" how bad they were doing, because we are getting some deals done at least faster then they were before. I am much more concerned that the Revs also have to change the perception and demonstrate that they are concerned for a players well-being (not just the bottom line). They need to transfer a player "in-contract" if a team comes calling. The rep of having stone-walled every single one is another reason no top players want to come here, or players play out their contract. Of course, we have to scout and bring in players that other teams outside the league want. Tied to the other concern. Man, still a lot of concerns. Just sad that we are so far behind trying to change that perception.
Would you keep trying to do deals with a guy if you thought that it never ended in a favorable result and just wasted your time for no outcome? It is our concern that he doesn’t do enough deals. Certainly not enough good deals.
This goes back years! I remember asking Steve Nicol about Todd Dunivant, a solid, left-sided mid, a border-line Nats player who was traded from LA to the Red Bulls for a song. I wondered if there had been any discussions of the Revs getting him, and it seemed to me we could have possibly given them a better offer. I think I used the phrase that LA was "shopping him around." Nicol bristled, and said that they were definitely not "shopping him around" (with emphasis in his voice) and he seemed annoyed at the question, yet at the same time, he probably realized that here was a quality player that went to a division rival that maybe, just maybe, he could have been ours. Now who knows the real, full story, but maybe NY initiated contact with LA about what it would take to get him, or if LA had approached them (and didn't approach Burns because--in their view--he is a pain in the ass to deal with), or what. But in order to be a successful GM, you need to have a good rapport with all your counterparts around the league, establish a network where you talk to them all the time, throw around lots of possibilities (when out of every 20 "deals" you talk about, only one actually happens). Old-school hockey story coming, but in the '60s, Frank Mahovolich was one of the biggest stars in the game, and one time the owners of the Blackhawks and Leafs got drunk together and "agreed" on a deal for a [Dr. Evil]$1 million dollar[/Dr. Evil] sale, which was a hell of a lot of money then. The next day they sobered up and one of the parties realized maybe it wasn't such a great idea, so it never happened.... So does Burns have much social contact with other club officials? Surely he knows a lot of guys from his playing days, like Peter Vermin, er, Vermes, but I have no idea how connected he is. Seems to me that it would be a vital part of the job...
Always arguable. I’d say the Lee and Nemeth trades are way too late, rendering them bad. We’ve basically killed the first two windows of the BF era without any big signing that will “move the needle.” That should be considered failure IMHO.
As I said more than a couple of times in the early season, there were a lot of quality, attacking players that moved in the past off-season, and I think it would be fair to say other teams would have entertained the idea of a Nguyen trade involving one of those guys. We could have had a good player, a real replacement who (in Friedel's view) fit better in the system as of Day One, and no early season drama. Instead, we got some non-player assets that may or may not be used to bring in some new player who may or may not work out.
Great points guys - I forgot completely about the actual timing of Lee and all the drama....was trying to repress it I guess
Even if the Revs/Burns are a PITA, if you're any kind of GM worth his salt, then you do your best to negotiate with them anyway. If you don't, then you're just a complaining prima donna. We've made deals with LAC, Vancouver and KC just in MLS this year, so the allegation that no one is interested in doing business with him is just false. Yet, Burns/Revs have consummated deals on a regular basis over the years, so the proposition is just not accurate. And, yes, if you want to be the best GM you can be and do the best job you can, you deal with teams that are PITAs even if it is harder. I don't think they've ever been a team that's really wanted to do many trades. Maybe that's a fault - at times it is (they probably over-value their own players much of the time). Ironically, if we did more deals that weren't "good enough", Burns would probably be rated better by other GMs
I see. So the reason the Revs have so much trouble making deals and signing players is the OTHER GMs and agents faults, not Burns' fault. Got it.
I'm assuming most are still trying to negotiate with the Revs, but I don't see any other teams being called out like this. You can try over and over again, and yet if you feel Burns doesn't negotiate in good faith, then why keep hitting your head against the wall? Actually I don't think I recall this in any of the major sports here where a GM is being called out this way.
It isn't a matter of the Revs wanting to trade a guy who only plays about half the available minutes for an MLS Best XI player. Everyone will try to get something better than they are giving up. The gripes with Burns are things like not bargaining in good faith with agents (like the agreement for a 2 year deal that turned into 4 years when the player was at the airport), and other instances over the years of changing the parameters of the deal after you have agreed on something else. (Yes, I know they signed the guy eventually, but it would have been better to have him 6 months earlier, and then they might have been able to put the efforts toward signing another guy that they didn't get this window) If you were in a different line of business and your widget supplier did this more than once, you'd look for another widget supplier to deal with. Other GMs certainly would deal with the Revs if they think it is in their interests, but if Columbus or Vancouver or RSL will give them the same about of GAM/TAM whatever and there is less hassle and aggro, they are going to call them first. And like the Dunivant example from years ago, if a team is going to quietly offer a player around, they are less likely to do it with a team that is a difficult one to work with.
Fair assessment. It's crazy that Burns unloads players after letting them lose value. We should call him "The Procrastinator".
Pop Psychology alert... I don't buy the bad faith conjecture, though I see how it could be perceived as bad faith by others (it's also possible that Lagerwey is just a self-aggrandizing asshole). I just think he's not as effective at his job as he should be. He's not meeting his KPIs (at least how we would define them ). He's probably aware of his reputation. Failing at his dream job must suck and doing it in the public eye makes it worse. I once had a job that was not a good fit. You lose confidence, others notice (and find ways to succeed without you). Your anxiety goes up even more, you start missing important details. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. With all that said and speculated, if he isn't the GM the Krafts want, he wouldn't be here. If Friedel bombs in NE, (especially if he gets snapped up by another MLS club and succeeds), perhaps the light bulb will go on in the head of Jonathan Kraft.
Other than the direct evidence we have, neither you nor I can 100% prove our position, as usual. In my opinion you are arguing that your clock displays the correct time twice a day so it most certainly isn’t broken. If Burns is tough to deal with for other MLS GMs why would we assume he is any easier to deal with for international GMs or agents? I think Burns’ record speaks for itself. Even with that one fortuitous coin toss he has pretty clearly established a record of ho hum mediocrity - at best. I’d, of course rate him much lower. I don’t see why we should wave off these comments by (an) other GM(s).