Official Fire Jurgen Klinsmann Thread

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by ussoccer97531, May 22, 2014.

  1. el americano

    el americano Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Jun 9, 2006
    San Francisco
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hope you're joking. I was done with Gullit in 1999, and he's been out of the game for a decade.
     
  2. jaxonmills

    jaxonmills Member+

    Aug 26, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's dead serious. Literally.
     
  3. taylor

    taylor Member+

    Jun 9, 2000
    Fav team: FC CARL ZEISS JENA
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I was literally going to post the exact same thing!
     
  4. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  5. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, he achieved a 23.08% win record with Terek Grozny in 2011.
     
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  6. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Ditto.
     
  7. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

    Jun 12, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm going to need a new avatar...
     
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  8. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    If I am honest, I still think it all more or less comes and goes with the players over the coach anyway. Arena will come in and we'll qualify, have a 50/50 shot at making it out of the group depending on the draw and then be an underdog hoping for an upset to get any further. This is exactly the same no matter who is the coach and that's because of the players available. If we expect to get significantly better under another coach, I think we're going to be disappointed. But, I don't see that we'll get worse either. At least with some fresh blood, maybe the excitement comes back. I have never seen soccer fans so disinterested in the national team as they have been over the past couple years.
     
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  9. Gilma1990

    Gilma1990 Member+

    Jul 30, 2015
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You can use mine if you like?
     
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  10. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  11. TheLostUniversity

    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Feb 4, 2007
    Greater Boston
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And to show how great was Jurgen's Low, he achieved these lows without J. Low!.....:cautious::whistling:
     
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  12. Bazi

    Bazi Member+

    Jan 15, 2009
    Wuerzburg (Germany)
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I will miss this thread. :(
     
  13. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    It's kind of hard to tell because the horizontal scale is by game number not year but I think you would expect a peak leading to and during a wc (hopefully) and a drop after the world cup while coaches rebuild their team for the next cycle. One thing I notice about Klinsmann's portion of the graph is that his peak seems to have continued longer before dropping off a cliff. His first dip could be considered to be the result of rebuilding after a wc year (Bradley's 2010) but the second dip may be the point at which his lack of rebuilding after Brazil caught up to him. Unfortunately, that is the point preceding and beginning the hex. Pure speculation on my part. I like graphs.
     
  14. LinksterAC

    LinksterAC Member

    Jun 30, 2008
    San Diego
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    BS is pretty hard on JK at this point, and with good reason . But the guy did, on balance, a lot of good for the USMNT. With him at the helm, we advanced to the knock-out round of the WC out of a murderous group, won a Gold Cup, and advanced to the semis of a major tournament. We also won a lot in Europe, against some damn good teams. Sure, I know they were mostly friendlies, but they used to be friendlies we always lost.

    I think JK, in his own way, elevated the program.

    His problem is the same fundamental problem most people in any job have: his schtick got old. Really old. When you are a motivational coach, vs. an Xs and Os type, that shift is suicidal, and he compounds it by having an acidic outlook on American soccer. The USMNT needs a new energy, and in this case it comes in the from of some old energy.

    I think both the USMNT and Bruce Arena have grown a lot in the ten years since his last tenure. I think both parties are a lot more mature, with a higher performance potential relative to the rest of the world than they had back in 2006. Compared to 2006, the USMNT has insane depth, better talent in the pipeline, and better young players on the field. Bruce is older, wiser, and won more and more in a league that's gotten a lot better in the intervening years. I think he is really going to do well, and we'll be happy with the results.
     
  15. iggymcfly

    iggymcfly Member

    Jun 20, 2014
    I don't necessarily agree with all this, especially that his schtick had gotten so old with the players that he'd lost the locker room when only this summer the US was playing some of the best football in their history en route to matching their furthest round ever at a major tournament. Overall, I think it's a pretty fair and balanced take though.


    The bolded is where I disagree. Coaches don't mature and get better with age like a fine wine between ages 55 and 65. In the absolute best-case scenario, they maintain the same level they were at previously. Usually they get crotchety, stubborn, and set in their ways, and refuse to adapt to the evolution of the game in the manner necessary to get results. At 55, Arsene Wegner was a revelation, transforming a group of underachievers into an unstoppable machine that finished an entire season unbeaten, the toast of the Premier League. At 65, he was a decade without a title, with even the fans who watched him build a legend wishing he'd leave. In his mid 50s, Manuel Pellegrini was one of the hottest commodities in Europe at Villarreal, reaching the Champions League semis and finishing runner-up in La Liga, leading to him getting the job at Real Madrid. At 63, he's so old and past it that to continue working, he has to go all the way to China.

    The top teams in world football have learned this lesson and are all going younger instead of older. Real Madrid is coached by 44 year old Zinedine Zidane. Barcelona, 46 year old Luis Enrique. Manchester City, 45 year old Pep Guardiola. Atletico, 46 year old Diego Simeone. Bayern, the relatively ancient 57 year old Carlo Ancelotti. It's not just club teams following the trend either. None of the Top 5 national teams in ELO rating have a manager older than 58.

    The only time you keep a manager that old working is when he's just been such a legend throughout his career that you figure he's worth it despite his inevitable decline. This..... does not fit Arena. Since being fired from the national team 10 years ago, he's been coaching in an extremely weak league where his success has gradually fallen off. Despite having the best talent in the league almost every year, the Galaxy are coming off back-to-back disappointing seasons, compiling a combined record of 28-25-19 over the past 2 seasons and failing to reach the conference finals either year. All signs point to us getting maybe 70% of the Arena that previously coached the national team if we're lucky. I just don't see the upside here. At BEST, it's a lateral move. At worst, it could send US soccer into a destructive tailspan that might even culminate with failing to qualify for Russia.
     
  16. jaxonmills

    jaxonmills Member+

    Aug 26, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Still better than Jurgen tbf :laugh:
     
  17. GumbyG

    GumbyG Member+

    DC United
    Mar 22, 2007
    Chesapeake, VA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bruce is ahead of his time. He went through his "getting crotchety, stubborn and set in his ways" phase back in the 90's. What does history say about coaches in their 110's? ;)
     
  18. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    An extremely weak league where he has gradually fallen off?

    LA Galaxy were champions in 2014, playing some of the best soccer MLS has ever seen.

    The last two seasons have been inconsistent. 2015 was bad for road results. 2016 the regular results were reasonable but the performances inconsistent.

    Bruce's biggest mistake in that time was signing Steven Gerrard and in fairness, few predicted he would be as limited as he was.

    However, that move caused direct and indirect moves such as losing Sarvas then Juninho and spending a 1.5 seasons crowbarring a name into a lineup.

    Also, Gio with Keane was a failure but who could've predicted that? And Bruce learnt that lesson. But for Howard's first leg performance, the Galaxy could've gone through.

    More importantly though is that Arena has consistently competed in a parity-driven league. Frankly, his success with LA was founded on smart roster composition, clever draft picks (AJ) and unknown quantities like Juni and Sarvas.

    LD & Becks were present for the team's worst ever performance and two straight missed post-seasons.

    And on those two, I have never been more impressed with a coach's handling of an off-field situation than Bruce's of the "Beckham Experiment" fallout.

    I've seen countless scenarios like that in my time and it usually ends up with a party leaving or continued animosity. Bruce laid it out and told them to work it out.

    Even Ferguson dealt with these situations by removing a player. Instead, Bruce turned them into a team.

    He's not the greatest tactician but he's a strong man-manager and knows this pool as well as anyone. He was the safest pick as a short term solution.

    Honestly, I feel like you were seduced by the Klinsmann name. The friendlies were won often because the other team was experimenting. JK also played more of the big Euro clubs than the US used to. When it came to actual competition, he was no better and at times much worse than Bradley & Arena.

    Add to what we're now learning he was saying behind the scenes (the Gold Cup was fixed? Really?) and he'd lost the team AND Gulati. That's huge.
     
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  19. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did Bruce sign Gerrard or did the front office do a Pirlo?
     
  20. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I managed to Google it myself. Arena signed Gerrard after failing to get Lampard.
     
  21. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    US/UK dual citizen in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Yes.

    There was discussion among Galaxy fans about how involved the FO was and initially I thought he might have had Gerrard thrust on him.

    Then I remembered that the a number of years ago, Tim Lieweke was in serious discussions with Ronaldinho about signing and Bruce said "no thanks". He apparently didn't care for the guy's attitude.

    If he was turning down Ronaldinho on Lieweke's watch, he's not having his roster dictated to him.

    At the same time, I can let it pass to a point. Gio and Gerrard seemed like good MLS signings on paper and I think 2015 was a function of making room for those players to arrive. I still think Gio will be okay. He was much more consistent when Keane wasn't playing and with a roster more tailored to him, we'll see the best of him.
     
  22. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    This thread is beautiful. Glad our online protests worked
     
  23. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Santa Cruz, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I doubt it. Otherwise, he'd have been fired loooong ago. After the Belgium loss, after the Jamaica loss, after the Guatemala loss, after the Argentina loss, after the Colombia loss, after the Mexico loss, and finally, after the Costa Rica loss, he's fired.

    So many losses that woulda-coulda-shoulda gotten him fired. Years of protests and thousands of posts did nothing... Until finally he's fired at the bottom of the Hex, gifting Arena with a deep hole to climb out of. Do you honestly think BS had a significant role in getting him fired? Really?
     
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  24. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Me thinks Gunner fell into the sar-chasm
     
  25. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany

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