Official 2018 Nadeshiko Japan Thread [R] - なでしこジャパン（英語スレッド）

This game looks like a 1-0 just waiting to happen

 

I don't think that Japan will up the tempo. They seem to save stamina in case for opponent counter (none of which by the way was sucessful so far). Only in the case of Brazil running out of fuel the way this game is played may change I guess

 

Non related: Netherlands play 10 vs. Switzerland. Dekker was sent off in 9th minute...

 

This ref though...

 

It's just that there are No Ueki, Miyazawa, Endo nor Takarada in this generation.

 

Praise 4-4-2.

Carlsen-Caruana was more interesting than whatever the hell this match was.

 

Ahoy! Thanks for the introduction, appreciate it. Figured providing some links would be a good enough reason to make an account.

 

That sums it up very well. The tactical understanding and organization of this team is good, but the individual talent seems to be lacking in this generation.
Especially in midfield (both in the middle and on the wing) creative players are missing: No Nagano, no Miyazawa, no Hayashi, no Endo.
Although our team came close to the box of the opponents on many occasions,
the last decisive pass never happened.
Nevertheless, i think with Tanaka and Yamamoto from the beginning
(who i believe are two very talented young strikers),
we still could have won this match, since Brazil didn't seem to be that strong.

And now everyone (except you, Sir) is praising Japan for their beautiful brand of football, they have shown over the last few years.

And just in case you have forgotten:
Japan is the only team, who has ever won 3 World cups,
in 3 different age categories, with 3 different group of players,
who were all playing the same system.

And on their way, they have coincidentally beaten many many teams,
that have played the 4-3-3 system, that you seem to like so much.

Think about that.

 

I think the baby Sawa is carrying is actually a boy and not a girl.

 

They played better football 10 years ago at the 2008 Olympics.

You can cherry-pick your statistics as much as you like, they don't change anything about the state of Japanese football right now.

When was the last time the Nadeshiko convincingly beat a top five team fielding three central midfielders in a competitive match? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that was Sweden back in 2011. It's all been downhill since then; they were at the end of a thrashing in the 2015 final (after some narrow wins over mediocre teams) and failed to qualify for 2016 altogether. Are we just ignoring this now? Do you think the team right now is better than the 2015/2016 one? Hasegawa/Nakajima/Yokoyama better than Miyama/Sawa/Ando? What a joke.

 

Well, I've heard a lot about the olympic games in 2008 but have never seen the team play there. Were they really that good already back then?

Anyway, that was not my point. What I wanted to say is that Japan has been known for years for its style of play, which includes:
clean passing game, Movement off the ball, good decision-making, fast direct play when the opportunity arises.

And because Nadeshiko Japan is doing that very well, they have been very successful in recent years. So not because of the system (4-4-2 or 4-3-3),
but the style of play (technical ball possession vs. physical direct play).

In this section I just wanted to show you that 4-4-2 system does not stand in the way of success. I mean Japan became world champion exactly with this system, right? And they were not even depending on the same group of players:

In 2011 we had Sawa, Miyama, Ohno and Ando, in 2014 we had Sugita,
Hasegawa, Kitagawa, Kobayashi and in 2018 we had Nagano, Miyazawa, Ueki and Takarada.

And they all played the 4-4-2 system. But in the first place they were successful because of the way they played (style of play), not because of where they stood on the pitch (formation).

Just recently our u20 team has beaten Spain in the finals with 3-1 and Usa in groupstage with 1-0 and both teams were playing the 4-3-3 system.
Interestingly, these two teams played completely different football from each other, even though they had the same formation/system.
I'm just wondering why?

And when you are talkin about our senior players:

summer 2017 (away): Netherlands (4-3-3) 0-1 Nadeshiko Japan (4-4-2)

The Netherlands played with their strongest team and that was their last game of preparation before their successful Euro campaign.
No European team could beat them at the European Championships.
Only Japan was able to defeat them in this particular game.
And think about it, our team was not even close to our best starting eleven,
and Takakura was still experimenting (Ohya at right-back).

spring 2018 Asia Cup: Australia (4-3-3) 0-1 Nadeshiko Japan (4-4-2)

Australia almost played with their strongest team and only Foord was missing. Japan on the other hand has played with their best defense for the first time: Yamashita - Shimizu, Kumagai, Ichise, Sameshima.
But because our midfield was still lacking some high quality members
(Nagano and Miyazawa could be the solution here) we lost the battle in this area and Australia took the initiative and created many many opportunities, although our defense was strong enough to resist and not concede a goal.

With a stronger midfield we will have the ball most of the time and thus
determine the course of the game (hopefully).

These were the teams we beat in the elimination round at the 2015 World Cup: Netherlands (round of 16), Australia (quarter-finals) and England (semi-finals).
Today, these 3 teams are among the strongest in the world.
So just like Nadeshiko Japan in 2008, as you mentioned earlier, maybe these teams were already very strong back in 2015. Don't you think so?

And there were many reasons why we couldn't manage to qualify for Rio 2016
and especially 2 reasons stand out for me in this matter:
(1) For the very first time, Homare Sawa was missing in this team and without her leadership, the pressure to be successful was too much for our remaining players, although the individual and collective quality was still there.
(2) Expiration date: If you play the same team over and over again, you have to expect that at some point the desire and motivation in the team is not 100% anymore. That does not mean that the quality of this team was not there,
it just means they could not show their best performance anymore.

And this is why Takakura is doing the right thing: to bring in new faces, even though some of them don't have the quality which is necassary for this level
(like Ohya or Haji). And i also think, that Norio Sasaki would have done the same thing, but at that time, the youngsters were not as strong as they are today, so he could not bring in new players, without losing quality in his starting eleven.

Well the first thing you are ignoring is, that we are currently in a process of building a team, that is capable of winning the World Cup.
But we are not there yet. I agree with you that Takakura still has to do a lot of work, before we can see ourselves as one of the top contenders for this prestigious title, but with a little more than half a year, i think we are in a good position to make it happen.

And yes, I think that Yokoyama and Iwabuchi are about as strong as Ohno was once, even though they all have a different style of play.
And comparing Hasegawa (already) with prime Miyama is quite unfair,
as Hasegawa is not at her prime yet. She and other players like Ichise, Shimizu, Nagano and Miyazawa will be at their best at the 2023 World Cup.

For now it makes more sense to compare the quality of Sawa, Miyama, and Ando with the quality of Kumagai, Sameshima and Sakaguchi, as they will be leading this team, during next years tournament.

And once again, sorry for this long post

 

It was played in 82 percent humidity, so I think both teams probably took it a little bit easy knowing they have more matches to play. Also I think these two teams will go through, but you never know.

Nobody in this group has scored a goal yet!

 

Fully deserved.

 

I can understand where And G is coming from.

Once you have an eye for tactical systems it's also easy to tweak formations to better use the offense or make the defense secure against any opposite formations. The basics are: Matching an opponent 1:1 is as easy as mirroring its formation. Usually one wants to outnumber the opponent in the defense so one player is moved back for that. If the midfield is a focus one wants to also outnumber the opponent there, so again move a player back for that as well.

The 4-4-2 is among the most boring, easy to pick up and universally defensively solid formations. If at all it's often used as a defensive formation while the opponent has the ball, while the formation is usually tweaked to the own advantage when on the ball.

The Samurai Blue show how the players' intelligence can be used to dynamically tweak the formation to match the opponent, like they have done excellently in the WC match against Belgium for example. Internationally I actually consider Japanese players (of both genders) the best at this, and it's a big part why I like watching them. Nadeshiko sticking so much and tightly to 4-4-2 in so many cases and through all age levels is honestly an insult to the players' intelligence.