Official 2017 Samurai Blue thread

Discussion in 'Japan' started by HomokHarcos, Jan 1, 2017.

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  1. NaohiroTakahara

    NaohiroTakahara Member+

    Nov 12, 2013
    Dont see the match but its not all about the players like the Senior NT problem its about the philosophie and the tactitcs the coach is given.

    He is maybe the worst coach Japan ever head and you cann see it. Since Vahid is here I think there was not one very good single game.

    He dont uses players right and is a very unfair coach. Outcluding Okazaki,Honda and Kagawa in the phase where those 2 were very good and letting them play when they were at bottom.

    He dont know anything about the players. We need a young fresh coach with fire...who can transform that to the players.
     
  2. Majster2

    Majster2 Member+

    Apr 23, 2010
    Poland
    Club:
    Urawa RD
    It's a disgrace to this bunch. From those players you can expect Ideguchi and Shoji at the WC games and Nakamura making the bench. Other than that it's not NT material.

    The only bright side from those 3 games would be Kawamata who never disappointed and always brought something good to the team.
     
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  3. Samurai Warrior

    Samurai Warrior Member+

    Dec 2, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Excluding.
     
  4. Samurai Warrior

    Samurai Warrior Member+

    Dec 2, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Just double-checked, it is Japan's worst defeat against an AFC opponent since 1988 when they lost 0-3 against Qarar in 1988 Asian cup (hosted by Qatar).
    Last time Japan lost by this margin against and AFC opponent at home was in an earlier match in the same year 0-3 against China at Mizuho stadium.
     
  5. Gordon1995

    Gordon1995 Member+

    Oct 3, 2013
    #630 Gordon1995, Dec 16, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
    Rather Makino than Shoji. Shoji isn't really that impressive imo. Of course, Makino has his flaws too but I feel that Makino is faster and better at man-marking but he maybe tends to get caught out of position more than Shoji imo.

    Btw, surprised that Misao didn't play, was looking forward to seeing him.
     
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  6. Samurai Warrior

    Samurai Warrior Member+

    Dec 2, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    #631 Samurai Warrior, Dec 16, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
    Speaking about this match I think this humiliation happened because of the following reasons:

    1- Over complacency from Japan's players; as they get carried away easily by their two previous wins and the early lead and momentum they got during this match.

    2- Inexperience from Japan's players; apart from Konno, all of these players are playing for the first time in a team heading towards the WC, and most of them made their debuts either during this tournament, earlier this year or last year. While South Korea has players which already played in 2014 WC cycle (and even 2010 WC cycle) and some of them were squad members during that WC (Lee Keun-Ho and Kim Shin-Wook), so they have more experience and showed urgency when they were 0-1 down and were eager to make statement as some of them do not like to miss the WC again (Kim Jin-Su and Jang-Hyun-Soo), as they know how it feels to miss the WC squad. Our players do not have such experience and it showed in their shaky performance.

    3- Vahid's incompetency; I think Vahid is experienced enough to know that he has to tailor his game-plan and starting line-up according to his opponents' strengths and weakness and not just stick with the game-plan and starting line-up he thinks is the best regardless of the opponent the he faces.
    For example, in this match he shall:
    A- Assign one of the CBs to man-mark Kim Shin-Wook ti neutralise his aerial threat. In the WC if he doesn't assign someone to man-mark Lewandowski, then Lewa will have a great party against our defence.
    B- Start with 3 central midfielders (Ideguchi - Misao - Konno) as we need depth and strength in midfield against such an experienced S. Korean midfield and overall team which has ACL winners, former WC squad members, Olympic Games medal winners and Asian Cup runners-up.
    C- Start with Kawamata as the CF to deal with S. Korea's defenders aerial advantage and make room for players coming from behind. If I were Vahid I will bench Kobayashi and start with Kawamata instead, with both Ito, Doi (or even Abe or Kurata on the flanks), and then I might bring Kobayashi late in the second half when the opposing defenders are tired to benefit from his runs and movements.

    As it is already known, and as Troussier (or another coach) mentioned: For the WC you have to prepare your game plan and select your squad members according to your groups-stage opponents not according to which players and game-plan you think are the best.

    We have 6 months, I really hope Vahid will fix this issues, or we will have a nightmare in Russia.
     
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  7. Samurai Warrior

    Samurai Warrior Member+

    Dec 2, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Miso came in as a sub for Ideguchi midway through the second half.
     
  8. Gordon1995

    Gordon1995 Member+

    Oct 3, 2013
    #633 Gordon1995, Dec 16, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
    Troussier mentioned that Japan lack players with great individual quality and make things happen on his own when the team is not playing well iirc.
    Japan lacks someone like Son Heung Min who can run past defenders and score chances out of nothing imo.
    Honda in 2010 was such a player, now Japan don't really have such a player.
    My bad, I only watched the first half of the match, my laptop was running out of battery and I had no charger. How did he played btw?
     
  9. Whispered11

    Whispered11 Member+

    U.C. Sampdoria
    Japan
    Oct 4, 2011
    Munich, Germany
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Well, it was a EAFF eye-opening tournament.

    Still, I do believe there are some silver linings.

    Nakamura and Shoji should be on the plane for Russia.
    If you want to point out at Nakamura's mistakes, you have also to put in account his saves against NK and China.
    I still believe he could be the starter for 2018 WC, especially if Kawashima keeps being in & out Metz's goal in Ligue 1.

    I think Halilhodzic wasn't the right man for this kind of tournaments: he proved in 2015 edition and he proved it again two years later.
    We won by accident against North Korea and we've been destroyed by SK.
    Against China, we played probably the only acceptable game of the tournament, but still... China basically didn't show up.

    Since last summer, I believe 2018 WC will be a massacre.
    Mainly due to coach, but not exclusively.
    About J. League's quality, I do think there are some interesting prospects.
    Nakamura, Ito, Shoji, partially Ideguchi were decent. And they should be taken in consideration. Plus Nakatani was at home (for reasons I don't understand) and Kobayashi showed sometimes why he has been the MVP.
    (I'm sorry Kanazaki played so little, he's a really good player, but context is important for him).

    Of course, J. League needs a techinical improvement, because financially and structurally speaking, the league is the best in Asia. And probably Top 15 in the world.
     
  10. Majster2

    Majster2 Member+

    Apr 23, 2010
    Poland
    Club:
    Urawa RD
    lol, nope.

    Japan needs a real deal striker like Lewandowski who scores actual goals, and if not scoring getting 2/3 players of opponents team on his back which enables others to score.

    When such a player will be in JNT they can aim for bigger targets. For now it's all the same as in the past 20 years.
     
  11. Majster2

    Majster2 Member+

    Apr 23, 2010
    Poland
    Club:
    Urawa RD
    He's good on the line. Pretty pitiful when it comes to crosses into the PA. Maybe he can work it out but he doesn't stand out from the bunch too much for now.
     
  12. seolseol

    seolseol Member+

    Apr 26, 2003
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Well this is far from the WC squad ( i hope) so no point in discussing that. On the other hand Korea also had a B team.
     
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  13. Majster2

    Majster2 Member+

    Apr 23, 2010
    Poland
    Club:
    Urawa RD
    It was called 2,5 JNT or even 3rd squad of JNT considering there were no Urawa players there (aside from Ideguchi the only ones from J League who could start in the first NT are Makino and Nagasawa). So no one is taking those results seriously.
     
  14. seolseol

    seolseol Member+

    Apr 26, 2003
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    But still. Bad showing
     
  15. Majster2

    Majster2 Member+

    Apr 23, 2010
    Poland
    Club:
    Urawa RD
    Well, it's always better to win rather then lose games.
     
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  16. Gordon1995

    Gordon1995 Member+

    Oct 3, 2013
    Forget about Lewandowski, Japan is still far from producing a player of his quality. I would be glad if Japan has someone like Honda in 2010 and Nakata in 2002 for next year WC. Japan really lack a game-changer who can make things happen when the team is not playing well for next year WC.
    On another note, I think Japan could try Kiyotake for the upcoming friendlies, the JNT really lacks someone who can split open defences with passes like him, Kagawa and Honda of old.
     
  17. Samurai Warrior

    Samurai Warrior Member+

    Dec 2, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Misao was good and promising, apart from the foul he committed when he just came in and led to the FK that S. Korea scored their 4th goal from.

    In 25 minutes he did better than Ideguchi, who was the biggest disappointment of the tournament.
     
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  18. Gordon1995

    Gordon1995 Member+

    Oct 3, 2013
    They are a little different imo, Ideguchi a naturally smaller player is more suited to a B2B role, Misao is more suited to be a holding midfielder kinda like Hasebe.

    I hope Nakayama can quickly be converted into a DM so as to provide more alternatives in the role for Japan.
    Don't really feel that CB is the most suitable position for him but I don't think Kashiwa have anyone to replace him as they only have Nakatani.
     
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  19. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Kiyotake was injured but I think he could've made a bit of a difference, yes. Sadly he's injured quite often.
    The result isn't really any more meaningful than a friendly, but you have to remember that this was played in Japan... it really shouldn't have happened.
     
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  20. verde água

    verde água Member

    São Paulo
    Oct 4, 2017
    São Bernardo do Campo
    For the WC, I think Vahid should use Kawamata or Osako as a pivot, together with Okazaki who has the ability to put the ball inside the goal. Then Kawamata Osako would make the same role Okazaki did when Leicester was the champion in PL: To press the adversary and to be a pivot in the attack. Like this:

    ------------------Kawashima--------------------
    Sakai-----Yoshida----Makino---Nagatomo
    ---------Morioka-----Hasebe(Yamaguchi)--
    Honda----Osako(Kawamata)---Nakajima
    --------------------Okazaki----------------------
     
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  21. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    if you go 4-2-3-1 the player behind the striker must be able to pass. Kawamata isn't that kind of player...
     
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  22. verde água

    verde água Member

    São Paulo
    Oct 4, 2017
    São Bernardo do Campo
    #647 verde água, Dec 16, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
    Well, Real Madrid doesn't play with an attacking midfielder, instead they play with 2 central midfids (Modric and Kroos) and 2 strikers (Benzema and Ronaldo).

    Leicester also played with Okazaki as a Pivot and secondary striker when they were PL champions. So for the JNT, instead of using him for that function, Osako and Kawamata are more suited for that in my opinion because they are tall and strong, while Okazaki, who has amazing off-the-ball moviment, should be the main striker.

    And also Kawamata had 10 assists this season at J-League. Osako also had a great number of assists in last season's bundesliga.
     
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  23. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Candreva is the top assistman in Serie A, it doesn't mean he can play behind the striker (which he did attempt in the past)... but anyway, I think we all know Kengo won't make the world cup.
     
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  24. AKITOD

    AKITOD Member+

    Apr 5, 2007
    Hobart, Aust
    Club:
    JEF United Ichihara
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    This is on the money. There's a few candidates, but we don't have anybody of that form atm.
     
  25. Gordon1995

    Gordon1995 Member+

    Oct 3, 2013
    Really hope that Misao can make it to the WC. Japan lacks a physical presence like him in the MF. Having a holding midfielder like him can help relieve some pressure off the CBs and maybe allow Ideguchi/Yamaguchi to do play further up the pitch when necessary without much worries cuz it seems that Halilhodzic don't really like Kobayashi. Of course, Hasebe will start there if he can but if he cannot make it for 90 mins maybe Misao can come up for the last 20 mins.
     
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