What happens if the appeal is won by the team/coach? Other than revoking a suspension seems like there are few options, do they order a replay of the game or something. this sort of thing does feel emblematic of what is wrong with much of youth sports these days. too many adults making it out to be far more important than it is.
Why does the association need the referee present at the meeting to state his ITOOTR? The association should have been able to determine that this was a matter of opinion and therefore not an appealable matter at all. I don't get it. If it was me, I would NOT be driving 40 minutes anywhere to meet about this. I'd send these people a written statement and they can use that. Or they can call me.
Amen. The LEAGUE is the one with the problem, not you. As said here, the ONLY reason to drag you in is in a misapplication of the Laws, not your interpretation of what appears to be a pretty obvious DOGSO. Geesh. How about this....join that league as a member of the board and straighten THEM out.
Agreed. Further, the league does not want to alienate the refs. Reversing a referee's decision in the absence of a gross misapplication sends a clear signal to the refs that the league is not serious about the LOTG, which will cause a significant backlash from refs who feel it's not worth their time to officiate in such a league.
I was taught a long time ago that when writing up your misconduct reports, write in short, declarative sentences. Include such elements as to deomonstrate your complete control of the situation, such as: The numbers of all players involved You proximity to the play (assumes you were close) Proximity of ARs to the play Actions/elements affecting play Pertinent details leading up to the foul (not conjecture or supposition) such as "Red player #3 lost the ball at midfield 5 meters from touch, tracked Blue opponent #4 15 yards into the Red half and engaged in an awkward, aggressive and seriously dangerous challenge from behind approx 5 meters from touch and 35 meters from goal, 20 meters from AR1. I was trailing the play the entire time by 4 meters. Red #3 was overly aggressive in trying to reobtain possession and challenged directly from behind in a manner commensurate SFP. Through eye contact both myself and my AR believed SFP was appropriate. Red #3 took the send off in gentlemanly fashion and left the field of play without incident. Play resumed without incident following the restart." I have found that such details usually stop anyone from hauling you in on a Thursday night to explain your decision. Pretty cut and dry.
It would be nice if the case were dismissed right off, but that may not always be an option under league rules. Often you can protest anything, if you're willing to pay (insert appropriate quote about "a fool and his money"). Once it gets to that point, a tribunal may be mandatory. And who knows what happens once something like this gets into a committee room. Usually nothing good. The red card protest I mentioned previously? The committee found that the referee was completely within rights to award the send-off.... and the card was overturned anyway. Why? Because of a rules technicality. The ref had not sent in the player's pass within the required 48 hours. A cautionary tale that referees show know the rules of the competition and make sure they follow them scrupulously.
Most of what you said is right. We call it Aribitration. You have to pay some money to have it go to arbitiration can be as low as 50 dollars. But someone has to pay that. You cannot win a judgement call only where you mis interpret a rule. Some people take red cards to arbitration so instead of the player gettin an extra 2 game suspension they get a one game suspentionbeside the game that the red was issued on. If I was an official and thank God I am not I would not take this as a personal thing. Just never admit you made a mistake with the rules.
One other thing sometimes the away team will want to protest a game because of somekind of problem with the condition of the home field. To do that if the official says the field is playable the protest and the money cost of the protest has to be paid before the game is played not during or after the game is played.
What floors me is that they require the CR to be there for what appears to be an adminsitrative issue. If they are not protesting the call, but rather the suspension, THAT is adminsitrative. Certainly they have a matrix for things like this where DOGSO=x games, SFP=x+, etc. I would think things like DOGSO would be a one gamer, no problem. I could see SFP, VC, spitting or AL calling for the CR to show to explain his opinion, on which the AD board could basis their decision for a longer suspension. But simple DOGSO? Geesh. They must like to waste their time. Dude, take your iPod, a Coke and your kid's Nintendo DS to bide your time.
In our league actually no ione has to be there it depends. The person making the protest can do it in writting and the official can answer it in writting.
Thanks God. Our league raised the costs of protests. Cases dropped from 127 to 22 in one year. Of those 22, 1 was overturned (obvious misapplciation of LOTG), 3 were reduced, the rest upheld. I am now the Referee Rep and the Coaches Rep to that body. I advise all CRs to write well detailed misconduct reports to avoid any hassels.
Sometimes it is not about us. Some leagues/associations determine if a more severe punishment is warranted. The assignor's (AR) view that this was SFP and not DOGSO, for example, might be a factor if the player has a history of violent behavior. Alternatively, some leagues/associations have additional punishments for repeat offenders. If this is the third red card, and the league has a rule suspending the player for the rest of the season, the club should appeal just to see if they can get forgiveness of the punishment because it was only DOGSO and not SFP. Dennis
You could also play the game their way. Check the rules for a protest. The league I do most of my reffing in, says something like: the coach must inform the other coach and the officials that he will be filing a protest. If he doesn't do this, it's an invalid protest.
At the risk of sounding like I'm jumping down your throat, be careful with this statement. As referees, if we knowingly made a mistake and yet hide that fact in an appeal, it would be a serious breach of ethics. While referee's have to be confident and sometimes work to sell their calls, it is a dangerous road to travel if we start omitting facts. Don't be afraid to admit when you make a mistake, in most cases it actually helps your credibility and that of your peers. Our youth state cup has this rule clearly called out. On top of that, they require that this is done along with the required protest fee being paid to the CR within a half hour of the end of the match.
So, here's the epilouge: I went to the hearing, and between the board, the coach, mom, and the player, I was the only non-white there (Or for that matter, at the Safeway on the way home, too...this is Highlands Ranch.) Player was dressed liked she just stepped out of a Dick and Jane book. Coach's story, the short version: "It wasn't an OBVIOUS goal scoring opportunity." "She should've gotten a yellow." Me: I've already given my side above. Coach Rebuttal: repeated what she said. I drove 50 minutes for this. Today, the ruling came back. In short: Law 12: Red card for DOGSO: check. Law 5: The ref makes the call in play. Since the L12 call was part of L5, card stands. She may appeal to the State Exec. Committee. (Oh, please do. I'll channel Pacino from "And Justice for All." or better yet, Nicholson from "A Few Good Men.") Happy Ending for Badgerjohn.
Dumbfounded it even got THAT far. Wow, what a substantial waste of your time. I am just lucky I live within 5 mins of the state office so I can toss as many cards as I like....the drive time for me is FAR less than that of the coach/player. Happy ending...congrats.
Chalk one up for properly dispensed justice. Their argument was really rather elementary, and I have a feeling they got some pleasure out of inconveniencing you - more than they expected to actually win the appeal. But that might just be the cynic in me. I hope you filed a claim for gas, time, and milage $$ so it wasn't a total waste.
Aurora is considered "Denver Metro," like Highlands Ranch, so we're practically neighbors! No need for gas money! In their defense, they did drive from Longmont, so they really put in the investment. I couldn't drive that far without a loan for a tank of gas. Awful lot for a U13 Girls' appeal, but, hey, their loss. Hopefully, she'll know what to expect next time they get pissed about a red.
Pretty amazed you had to come in...at my club you'd have spoken to someone on the phone, we'd have said judgement calls are not subject to appeal and that would be that. then we might check to see if you hand out like 3 reds a game just to make sure we don't need to have you doing a different age group. And before everyone takes me to task, we do have 2 or 3 refs that do not control, for example, U16 boys games well and end up handing cards out like candy on Easter, week after week. But that would be an internal discussion, not with anyone involved in a protest.
Congrats on the "win". And completely off topic (kinda), I may be moving to Colorado, near the Littleton area. Are there a lot of reffing opportunities out there? Obviously you had to deal with some crap from your league, something I hope isn't rampant out there, but are the leagues pretty civil otherwise?
Welcome! And Yes, our leagues are pretty nice, although the girls grow fast out here (I've had several U11 players taller than me). There's also a ref shortage: no one is available for the youngest rec games, and you'll see a lot of young competitive/older rec games that have to use club linesmen. You'll get your share of work.